• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

Bernie has several flaws, but he was the first presidential candidate in a long time that progressives/leftists could support because of what they were for, not because of their stance relative to their opponent. A critique of the bad parts of his platform is not a wholesale dismissal of it.
 
Sincere question: What are the problems with Bernie's stance on immigration? His web site uses the right language of compassion for immigrants and he has tweeted numerous times that the Trump family separation policy is disgusting.

His trand stance is not based in, to my knowledge, xenophobia or nationalism, but rather equity, fairness and environmental concerns (e.g., we are getting cheap shit manufacture in Viet Nam because they pay very low wages and rape the environment, we need to insist on environmental and labor regulations like we have here.)

I really never got any sense of any "nationalism" from Bernie and my support for him was not rooted in Hillary hate but rather disappointment with mainstream democrats and that bird that landed on his podium during a rally in Oregon.
 
PhDeac said:
A lot of the Bernie love was simply anti-Hillary sentiment. He’s not the hero progressives need. He was just the only one who stepped up to challenge Hillary.
Click to expand...

Bernie ran on a traditional socialist/populist platform, that largely defines what it means to be "progressive". If Bernie isn't the hero they need,e then maybe they need to step back and realize a populist/socialist/progressive isn't what this country needs.
 
avalon said:
I do think there was a lot of Hillary hate, but I also think there was a craving for politicians running more to the left. Congress is getting older while younger people are becoming more progressive.

In particular I think of politicians that have been in politics since the '90s, when crime was double what it is now and they had to favor tough on crime policies to win. Or even people on the national stage in the early '00s when people were scared and willing to give up their rights and send the country to war in order to feel more safe.

Needless to say, there will be A LOT more choices in 2020. Too many.
Click to expand...

I agree with this.
 
WFcatamount22 said:
Bernie ran on a traditional socialist/populist platform, that largely defines what it means to be "progressive". If Bernie isn't the hero they need,e then maybe they need to step back and realize a populist/socialist/progressive isn't what this country needs.
Click to expand...

Progressives don’t want a cantankerous old man who is largely out of touch with young people and minorities.
 
PhDeac said:
Progressives don’t want a cantankerous old man who is largely out of touch with young people and minorities.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, I thought Bernie's campaign management did an incredible job painting a grumpy old socialist, into a hip social icon. I agree with your point though, they really want a Trudeau, not a Sanders.
 
birdman said:
Sincere question: What are the problems with Bernie's stance on immigration? His web site uses the right language of compassion for immigrants and he has tweeted numerous times that the Trump family separation policy is disgusting.

His trand stance is not based in, to my knowledge, xenophobia or nationalism, but rather equity, fairness and environmental concerns (e.g., we are getting cheap shit manufacture in Viet Nam because they pay very low wages and rape the environment, we need to insist on environmental and labor regulations like we have here.)

I really never got any sense of any "nationalism" from Bernie and my support for him was not rooted in Hillary hate but rather disappointment with mainstream democrats and that bird that landed on his podium during a rally in Oregon.
Click to expand...

It goes back to my previous question: what is the moral argument for closed borders? His stance is closed borders are necessary foremost to keep out low-wage workers in order to prevent wages from being undercut. It privileges the American worker over the foreign worker, thus the claim to nationalism.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
It goes back to my previous question: what is the moral argument for closed borders? His stance is closed borders are necessary foremost to keep out low-wage workers in order to prevent wages from being undercut. It privileges the American worker over the foreign worker, thus the claim to nationalism.
Click to expand...

Thanks for responding.

Ok, I can get behind criticizing that stance...I am not sure it equates to nationalism but closing our borders because of wage depression is not something I would stand behind. Go after the employers for violating minimum wage laws and work to get the minimum wage raised.
 
Newenglanddeac said:
Sailor - how much of this article do you agree with?

100%, 50%, 25% or just the headline?
Click to expand...

I read the article, and yeah, caving to Trump and meeting his demands for a border wall will certainly do the trick. He'll never hold kids for ransom as a negotiating ploy ever again. The article is basically advocating a policy of appeasement towards Trump and his supporters, in the hopes that it will make them happy and will stop further demands, and we all know how well that policy worked the first time it was used many decades ago.
 
birdman said:
Thanks for responding.

Ok, I can get behind criticizing that stance...I am not sure it equates to nationalism but closing our borders because of wage depression is not something I would stand behind. Go after the employers for violating minimum wage laws and work to get the minimum wage raised.
Click to expand...

I agree somewhat, but there are still a number of labor-type jobs that Americans will just never do in areas that people don’t want to live. What then?

Having said that, where is your opposition to Trump hiring foreign workers at his resorts? Those jobs Americans can do.
 
You’d think Trump supporters would line up for jobs at his resorts. It makes too much sense for Trump to hire the people most loyal to him.
 
Highland Deac said:
I read the article, and yeah, caving to Trump and meeting his demands for a border wall will certainly do the trick. He'll never hold kids for ransom as a negotiating ploy ever again. The article is basically advocating a policy of appeasement towards Trump and his supporters, in the hopes that it will make them happy and will stop further demands, and we all know how well that policy worked the first time it was used many decades ago.
Click to expand...

The Democrats offered the wall last year. He doesn't care about the wall. He enjoys using it as a campaign tool.
 
warak said:
I agree somewhat, but there are still a number of labor-type jobs that Americans will just never do in areas that people don’t want to live. What then?

Having said that, where is your opposition to Trump hiring foreign workers at his resorts? Those jobs Americans can do.
Click to expand...

Doesn't seem like just because native born Americans don't want to do the job or that they are in remote areas the employers shouldn't be held to minimum wage standards. Am I missing something in this question?

As to you second point: Fuck Trump and everything he does, but, employing foreign workers at his resorts doesn't bother me, in fact I support that. I wouldn't say I am in favor of completely open borders, but I definitely support far more liberal immigration policies than most. My family are Irish, Dutch and German immigrants I have no business saying that the doors are closed and immigration is bad.

Maybe these are rhetorical questions and I am missing your point, but, I think you misunderstood my previous post. I was trying to say that I would not back Bernie on a closed border policy. So he and I have two disagreements on policy, border control and gun control. But still, that bird landed on his podium so I gotta support the guy.
 
WFFaithful said:
The Democrats offered the wall last year. He doesn't care about the wall. He enjoys using it as a campaign tool.
Click to expand...

This is correct. The Wall is far more valuable to him in 2020 if he can claim that Democrats repeatedly blocked the wall funding and now MS-13 are shooting up public schools.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top