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Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

Are we really going to pretend that ambitious politicians don’t take advantage of the Democratic Parties lack of any coherent ideological standard, and just strategically position themselves to the far right of the party? Joe Manchin stands in a long line of congressmen who have made fucking careers obstructing the Democratic Party. They pay no penalty for it, rather they are all richly rewarded for only having voted on the party line occasionally when it didn’t interfere with their personal agenda.
 
The dems are going to lose in ______! is so tired from people who support candidates who can't win elections. If your ideas are so popular then build better coalitions to win elections or STFU.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Are we really going to pretend that ambitious politicians don’t take advantage of the Democratic Parties lack of any coherent ideological standard, and just strategically position themselves to the far right of the party? Joe Manchin stands in a long line of congressmen who have made fucking careers obstructing the Democratic Party. They pay no penalty for it, rather they are all richly rewarded for only having voted on the party line occasionally when it didn’t interfere with their personal agenda.
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That standard you think should exist shows no evidence of being able to win enough elections to control.

He is on board with a pretty significant taxing and spending proposal which will expand Medicare. Not insignificant.
 
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TownieDeac said:
The future of the country and the party is being determined by two people with no political interest or projects, and with absolutely no commitment to the future of said country or party. Good system!
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And at least one of the two has a very large personal financial interest in maintaining the status quo energy policy. It is fucked up.
 
ChrisL68 said:
The dems are going to lose in ______! is so tired from people who support candidates who can't win elections. If your ideas are so popular then build better coalitions to win elections or STFU.
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lol this is your time to shine chris, you've got JOE BIDEN as president, a complete stalemate deadlock in congress, and two centrists are the most powerful people in congress. you must be overjoyed!
 
So…what we need is the right kind of strongman…?


I mean, when your party hold the slimmest of majorities any one representative will have the potential for powerful obstructionism.


It’s the people of WV whut put Manchin in office, yes?


Seems to me it boils down to the need for ongoing efforts to educate and persuade people.
 
no we just need to *checks notes* build better coalitions
 
I saw an interview yesterday with citizens of WV. One of them was asked if they had to get rid of coal or brave floods and her response was, "let it flood."

I'm not sure how we get through.
 
i don't know what the answer is but I no longer believe can expect to have a properly enough Informed Electorate for direct or representative democracy to effectively manage a superpower nation
 
ChrisL68 said:
That standard you think should exist shows no evidence of being able to win enough elections to control.
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Under our current 2 party system, as it’s currently aligned - you are absolutely correct. The national Democratic Party simply can’t afford to maintain any coherent platform. They must say and do whatever is required to win, and they must accept whatever candidates that choose to run as Democrats, no matter how conservative or obstructionist. That’s reality.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
i don't know what the answer is but I no longer believe can expect to have a properly enough Informed Electorate for direct or representative democracy to effectively manage a superpower nation
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plato is that you
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Under our current 2 party system, as it’s currently aligned - you are absolutely correct. The national Democratic Party simply can’t afford to maintain any coherent platform. They must say and do whatever is required to win, and they must accept whatever candidates that choose to run as Democrats, no matter how conservative or obstructionist. That’s reality.
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I honestly appreciate you accepting reality even though you don't like it at all.
 
ConnorEl said:
It’s the people of WV whut put Manchin in office, yes?
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Do you consider Joe Manchin inevitable, as if he would have run for Congress and won no matter which party he belonged to? If you believe that, then I guess you do need to support him. Personally, I think his conservative ideological bent was probably obvious from the beginning of his career, and the national party could have chosen not to endorse or support him. Perhaps had there never been a West Virginia Democratic Senator in Congress for whom we counted as a vote, more emphasis and support elsewhere would have won a different election? Maybe someone could have babysat Cal Cunningham and smacked the phone out of his hands?
 
ImTheCaptain said:
i don't know what the answer is but I no longer believe can expect to have a properly enough Informed Electorate for direct or representative democracy to effectively manage a superpower nation
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This is the real problem. Too many people live in some weird alternate realty and they’re highly motivated to vote based on that “reality.”
 
I mean is Manchin and Cal Cunningham an either or? At the end of the day he is a senator in a huge Republican state who is supporting tax increases an expansion of medicare and various other policies that are much more favorable to democrats than they are to republicans. We can bitch and moan about him but surrendering that seat just because we don't have enough other democrats in the senate seems dumb when you are trying to thread such a thin electoral needle.

There are huge differences between Joe Manchin and the pub who would support none if this.
 
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