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Thread: Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: I make joke about Townie giving up. He does.

  1. #5161
    this harry potter/us politics extended metaphor is not doing it for me
    semi-aquatic like otters be.

  2. #5162
    the goblin bankers, what are they again?

  3. #5163
    oof
    semi-aquatic like otters be.

  4. #5164
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    PhDeac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TenaciousKory View Post
    this harry potter/us politics extended metaphor is not doing it for me
    Same. I kept it simple. I don't know what they're going for.

    Goblin bankers are Jewish stereotypes. That's obvious.

  5. #5165
    I disagree with you
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Is magic elite higher education in this metaphor?
    i mean, they're not even wizards. they're all sorcerers

  6. #5166
    Quote Originally Posted by TenaciousKory View Post
    this harry potter/us politics extended metaphor is not doing it for me
    Wait. Did I mention that voting is our magic and that *all of us are wizards?

    *except for disenfranchised felons, undocumented immigrants, and children
    Draxx them sklounst

  7. #5167
    and some of us have to take a bus and then wait 3 hours to use our magic, but if Voldemort controls our state then maybe it’s harder to use our wand? This analogy is going great.
    Draxx them sklounst

  8. #5168
    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheCaptain View Post
    perhaps the stories about rag tag groups combining to win is such a popular trope is because it happens so rarely in real life
    I think activists run through a version of this shit constantly... I've had a few big losses in the policy areas that I care about this year and know that I have

    I mean, let's depersonalize it: imagine being a kid organizing with Sunrise only to find that two cynical ass moderates can derail literally everything that you care about because it's worth a few hundred thousand in the piggybank.
    Last edited by Strickland33; 10-20-2021 at 01:31 PM.
    We're going to be good again.

  9. #5169
    well you see sunrise movement, if your ideas are so good what you have to do is build a better coalition

  10. #5170
    I think what's frustrating about folks like ChrisL is that it's really unclear what motivates them from a positive perspective. I understand Chris's politics as a negative construct, but I don't think I know a single thing that moves him as a politically-motivated citizen beyond feeling passionate about tax policy. I run into these types working in politics all the time. I know what they think is stupid, but I have virtually no idea what motivates folks' engagement with, let alone participation, in politics.

    Like, fine, all of my political ideas are idiotic, stupid, etc. I grew up in Winston-Salem, North Carolina as a politically progressive Jewish kid during the tail end of Clinton, rise of Bushism, and re-emergence of the anti-war movement. I've heard it all before and far worse than some dude from Greensboro that I'll never meet can dish out. I know that there are a lot of people who don't find anything that I care about to be meaningful. But if you're going to post thousands of times on a message board, then maybe idk exercising an ounce of nuance would be cool every hundredth post or so (at least to break up the monotony of "these darned urban elite kids!")
    We're going to be good again.

  11. #5171
    I think he's trying to thread the same needle democrats are, which is that on paper he supports Biden's agenda, but materially it makes absolutely 0 difference to him, and he doesn't care who he alienates when his ideology doesn't get acted upon.

  12. #5172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strickland33 View Post
    I think activists run through a version of this shit constantly... I've had a few big losses in the policy areas that I care about this year and know

    I mean, let's depersonalize it: imagine being a kid organizing with Sunrise only to find that two cynical ass moderates can derail literally everything that you care about because it's worth a few hundred thousand in the piggybank.
    I thought we all knew that the Georgia run-offs were the difference between Mitch McConnell or Joe Manchin running the Senate. I'm not going to say it's as simple as MOAR DEMS in the Senate, but as we see in the House, it's a lot easier to get a progressive agenda through if there's a margin of error.

  13. #5173
    Quote Originally Posted by TownieDeac View Post
    I think he's trying to thread the same needle democrats are, which is that on paper he supports Biden's agenda, but materially it makes absolutely 0 difference to him, and he doesn't care who he alienates when his ideology doesn't get acted upon.
    Also, he’d rather build a coalition with racists, pro-lifers, health care execs, than with anti-racists and people that want healthcare.

  14. #5174
    Can someone help ITC out with a more clever thread title ?

  15. #5175
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    I thought we all knew that the Georgia run-offs were the difference between Mitch McConnell or Joe Manchin running the Senate. I'm not going to say it's as simple as MOAR DEMS in the Senate, but as we see in the House, it's a lot easier to get a progressive agenda through if there's a margin of error.
    You're older than I am, Ph, so you know that there'll just be another Manchin. I follow politics somewhat closely, but had no idea that Joe Manchin was going to come out of nowhere to become the latest saboteur from inside of the Democratic Party. Sinema was a Green Party activist, for crying out loud... You never know where the block is going to come from, but it's hard to really think that change is possible in a system that has so well institutionalized an aversion to material change.

    We have examples in the past of leadership from the executive branch in bringing obstructionists to heel (e.g., Johnson's Great Society - like, imagine what LBJ would do to a Joe Manchin... he'd crush him and his entire fucking life like a cockroach), but then again we also know that the obstructionists still end up winning in a lot of ways anyway when we look at how the implementation of these progressive policies actually unfolds.
    We're going to be good again.

  16. #5176
    I just can't imagine being a human in a society where people regularly die because they don't have access to healthcare, housing, work, etc. and thinking "everything is fine" as an ideological position
    We're going to be good again.

  17. #5177
    Quote Originally Posted by TownieDeac View Post
    well you see sunrise movement, if your ideas are so good what you have to do is build a better coalition
    Problem with Sunrise is those self righteous urban elites are doing politics backwards. First you have to win elections by saying or doing absolutely whatever it takes and offending the least amount of people, then secondly - once you are in office you have the pleasure of cobbling together the most random grab bag of policies acceptable to the clowncar voter coalition that you needed to win the election. Dats good politics baybee!
    Draxx them sklounst

  18. #5178
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    Manchin's not new. He's been doing Manchin shit for awhile, but this is the first time he's had a chance to be the 50th vote.

    Looks like Manchin may go nuclear.

    SCOOP: Manchin Tells Associates He’s Considering Leaving the Democratic Party and Has an Exit Plan

    He could pull the trigger if he doesn’t get his way on the Build Back Better bill.

    https://www.motherjones.com/politics...eal-exclusive/

    In recent days, Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W. Va.) has told associates that he is considering leaving the Democratic Party if President Joe Biden and Democrats on Capitol Hill do not agree to his demand to cut the size of the social infrastructure bill from $3.5 trillion to $1.75 trillion, according to people who have heard Manchin discuss this. Manchin has said that if this were to happen, he would declare himself an “American Independent.” And he has devised a detailed exit strategy for his departure.
    Makes sense if you're wondering about the sense of urgency from the White House.

    But yeah, I'm older and I guess I follow this shit closer than a lot of people. I knew about Bernie before 2015 too.

    Dems were in a tough spot going into the special elections. Telling Georgians they needed to vote to stop McConnell and pass transformative legislation worked a lot better than telling them they needed to vote but Manchin was going to stop the good stuff.

  19. #5179
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Dems were in a tough spot going into the special elections. Telling Georgians they needed to vote to stop McConnell and pass transformative legislation worked a lot better than telling them they needed to vote but Manchin was going to stop the good stuff.
    and Dems are going to lose accordingly in 2022

    and ChrisL will blame urban elites, young people, and progressive policy

    rinse repeat
    We're going to be good again.

  20. #5180
    Quote Originally Posted by Strickland33 View Post
    You're older than I am, Ph, so you know that there'll just be another Manchin. I follow politics somewhat closely, but had no idea that Joe Manchin was going to come out of nowhere to become the latest saboteur from inside of the Democratic Party. Sinema was a Green Party activist, for crying out loud... You never know where the block is going to come from, but it's hard to really think that change is possible in a system that has so well institutionalized an aversion to material change.

    We have examples in the past of leadership from the executive branch in bringing obstructionists to heel (e.g., Johnson's Great Society - like, imagine what LBJ would do to a Joe Manchin... he'd crush him and his entire fucking life like a cockroach), but then again we also know that the obstructionists still end up winning in a lot of ways anyway when we look at how the implementation of these progressive policies actually unfolds.
    LBJ had huge majorities in both houses and had a significant number of minority GOP members vote for his legislation while having a bunch of Dems (particularly in the south) vote against and eventually break away from the Democratic party.

    Biden has a 50/50 senate. Not even remotely comparable.

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