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Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

i mean it's not exclusive, he just asked why the GOP shows up
 
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Pretty amazing Hunter Biden only broke bad in the last couple of years. We didn't hear a peep on it from 08-16.
 
Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Brad wishes Hillary a Happy Birthday.

ChrisL68 said:
You are right! Lets go kneecap Joe Manchin then he will vote for the package in full. I am so glad i have seen the light!
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Your strawman isn’t a rebuttal - whether or not we are actually powerless to “compromise” with Manchin doesn’t make the liberal “something better than nothing” argument any better or more sincere. Millions of voters aren’t ever going to realize what that “something” was that Biden accomplished, and aren’t going to knowingly benefit from it. Hell, it’s very likely that you yourself making the argument won’t benefit from whatever is accomplished, but you will sure as hell use whatever it is to score political argument points with unsatisfied leftists.

All I ask is that you just acknowledge that obstructionist Dems like Manchin discourage political participation from voters who see that the Democratic Party can’t even overcome its own members opposition, much less Republican opposition.
 
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myDeaconmyhand said:
Your strawman isn’t a rebuttal - whether or not we are actually powerless to “compromise” with Manchin doesn’t make the liberal “something better than nothing” argument any better or more sincere. Millions of voters aren’t ever going to realize what that “something” was that Biden accomplished, and aren’t going to knowingly benefit from it. Hell, it’s very likely that you yourself making the argument won’t benefit from whatever is accomplished, but you will sure as hell use whatever it is to score political argument points with unsatisfied leftists.

All I ask is that you just acknowledge that obstructionist Dems like Manchin discourage political participation from voters who see that the Democratic Party can’t even overcome its own members opposition, much less Republican opposition.
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myDeaconmyhand said:
Your strawman isn’t a rebuttal - whether or not we are actually powerless to “compromise” with Manchin doesn’t make the liberal “something better than nothing” argument any better or more sincere. Millions of voters aren’t ever going to realize what that “something” was that Biden accomplished, and aren’t going to knowingly benefit from it. Hell, it’s very likely that you yourself making the argument won’t benefit from whatever is accomplished, but you will sure as hell use whatever it is to score political argument points with unsatisfied leftists.

All I ask is that you just acknowledge that obstructionist Dems like Manchin discourage political participation from voters who see that the Democratic Party can’t even overcome its own members opposition, much less Republican opposition.
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Yes of course it hurts participation.

Is that behavior dumb and self defeating? Absolutely, particularly from politically engaged people who should understand the political realities better.

And the something is better than nothing argument as a logically sound argument when you compared to the other side who's gonna offer you nothing. Personally as somebody who's approaching 60 I would have benefitted from the medicare expansion down to 60 but it doesn't look like that's gonna happen But that doesn't change the fact that movements toward public funding of health care is going to be spearheaded by the democrats when and if it ever gets passed
 
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ChrisL68 said:
Yes of course it hurts participation.

Is that behavior dumb and self defeating? Absolutely, particularly from politically engaged people who should understand the political realities better.

…And the something is better than nothing argument as a logically sound argument when you compared to the other side who's gonna offer you nothing.
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Well you and I are just going to have to live with our disappointment- The reality is that individuals voters are just as politically self interested as corporations and politicians are. The Democratic Party can not be all things for all people when it’s being controlled by someone who is breaking all the Presidents promises. You’ve made it pretty clear why progressives don’t win in West Virginia, we’ll maybe you should reconsider the cost of *any* Democrat winning there, because right now that dickhead is walking Joe Biden around with a leash and collar.
 
And before you get into this “without Joe Manchin and 50 votes we couldn’t blah blah blah” horseshit, remember the alternative races in other blue-er states where the DNC completely fucking self-sabotaged. Maine & North Carolina come to mind immediately. Don’t pretend as if West Virginia was the last hope.
 
Did it ever come out what Sara Gideon did with that 14 million dollars she had left over after losing to Susan Collins? Just curious.
 
Other states where progressives aren't competitive?

It sucks that we didn't win more senate races. Maine and NC seemed like good chances. Maine wasn't even close though. Cunningham was very disappointing. Perhaps Jeff Jackson can do better
 
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ChrisL68 said:
Other states where progressives aren't competitive?

It sucks that we didn't win more senate races. Maine and NC seemed like good chances. Maine wasn't even close though. Cunningham was very disappointing. Perhaps Jeff Jackson can do better
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You understand how childish and petty you sound using this rebuttal every time I criticize the Democratic Party. Not every instance of Democratic failure is a rejection of progressivism. Neither Cal Cunningham or Sara Gideon were progressives, and they sure didn’t lose on their ideology. We can disagree all day on whether or not the party is malfeasant or just simply incompetent, but let’s not pretend that Joe Manchin ideologically represents an actual Democratic constituency worth capitulating away the national platform. The aim of the Democratic platform can not be winning West Virginia.
 
Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Brad wishes Hillary a Happy Birthday.

We’re letting Manchin and Sinema whittle Biden’s spending bill down to a toothpick and calling it all good because it’s still wooden: Extending 350$ childcare tax credit for another year, Universal Pre-K, and… a shit load of subsidies and tax cuts for clean energy corporations. We even eliminated the fucking pay-for. This spending plan is now nothing more than a fucking subsidy boondoggle for Exxon and Shell to produce ethanol and green energy - so their investors don’t take a hit from regulation costs. New Deal 2.0 for sure.
 
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Do you know how childish and petty you sound railing that somehow every democratic loss is due to incompetence utilizing poor strategy compared to some alternative obvious strategy that you claim is better that doesn't manifest itself in election wins?
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
We’re letting Manchin and Sinema whittle Biden’s spending bill down to a toothpick and calling it all good because it’s still wooden.
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They are cutting it in half. Is still about the same size as the trump tax cuts over a 10 year periods so not insignificant.
 
It's just fantasy sports for some of these posters. I don't think the folks you're subtweeting are having any more kids, are making below the poverty line, lack job security/pathways to mobility, or struggle to get decent, affordable health insurance, and almost everybody on here is a homeowner, etc.

For example, speaking personally - as somebody who would love to have kids but can't afford to, makes just around the poverty line, works in a field with virtually no job security and where mobility is increasingly becoming a myth, has awful health insurance, and is years of away from even beginning to think about owning a home, this circus hits a bit different.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Do you know how childish and petty you sound railing that somehow every democratic loss is due to incompetence utilizing poor strategy compared to some alternative obvious strategy that you claim is better that doesn't manifest itself in election wins?
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Brother I’m not going to dig up and repost the same post mortems everytime you conveniently forget about how incompetent the Democratic Party apparatus is in competitive states. I am impressed at your ability to act incredulous about the Democratic Party even during a discussion about Joe Manchin torpedoing Joe Bidens agenda. 1 Democrat is taking down your entire party agenda, but yeah, you’re doing great sweetie, keep up the good work.
 
Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Brad wishes Hillary a Happy Birthday.

Edit - stupid shit post
 
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Sucks that Joe Manchin is the 50th vote. However he is an actual D vote and not a hypothetical one.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Sucks that Joe Manchin is the 50th vote. However he is an actual D vote and not a hypothetical one.
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Well if it brings you comfort, I complained about the Democratic Party in the past, I’m complaining about it in the present, and I have absolutely zero faith that it’s going to improve in the future. I confidently suspect that far right “Democrats” are going to continue to have complete leverage over the party, and presently we are just encouraging future Manchins to be even more demanding and obstructionist.
 
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