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Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

TownieDeac said:
When people say politics is fantasy football to some, it’s posts like the last two they’re talking about. The material implications of the legislation are far less important than Ws and Ls of the teams they’re watching. If Romney actually went all Great Society anti poverty of course I’d go vote for him, in a heartbeat. This is just a weird Mormon one off. Anyway Matt Bruenig’s point if anyone was interested is that the $5k total in the Romney plan is more money distributed in an easier way than any of the dem child tax credits than made it to BBB. If you actually follow the issues themselves tho (again instead of just playing fantasy) the Gillibrand plan was the best of all, but it never made it particularly far.
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Good call on Gillibrand’s plan. It could have really changed things for the better. Alas.
 
Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Townie gives up.

ChrisL68 said:
I vote for the party that actually gets some social welfare enacted when the other party is almost unanimously opposed to it. You throw hissy fits about that party compared to some hypothetical party of your own mind.
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He voted for the party, too, and you’ve been throwing a hissy fit about him for like a decade lol
 
TenaciousKory said:
You think someone is a bad person because they think Bill Gates created COVID?
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If you want to read my post as being an exhaustive list, I guess you can. My intent was for it to be read as an example of a laundry list of thoughts and behaviors.
 
TownieDeac said:
Yea I just don’t think having conservative views is a personality flaw just as I’d hope people wouldn’t think my leftist views or my Wake fandom are so central to my being that they flaw my essential character
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"conservative views". C'mon man.
 
Louis Gossett Jr said:
If you are actively engaged in the thinking and that’s what shapes you, be it homophobic, anti-vax and so forth then there is absolutely no room in my life for you, it’s too short to engage with people like that.
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This is my view. One of my best friends is a Trump voter, but he is completely unengaged. We don't really talk politics, because he doesn't really know what's going on and doesn't care to talk about it. Fine by me.

My sister and her husband are Trump true believers. We've had it out in the past and we no longer talk politics and, while we see each other's families, we are not close (we were never really that close as we are just completely different people), and I am good with that.
 
Me and my sister are the crazy leftists of my family.

To me hating the system is self defeating when you look at the compilation of the US and the inherent rural white voting advantages and realize that moderate progressive movement is the best you can hope to achieve and its going to be a long slog to get there. Freaking out over the Dems for engaging in that slog just plays right into the obstruction of the other side. To me that seems uttterly self defeating.

I have no desire to get mad at anybody here but there seems to be more venom and invective over the moderate left than anybody else, and to me that's just the only realistic movement in this country in that direction.
 
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BeachBumDeac said:
I mean this is a little silly. Everybody’s life circumstances are different and not having anti-vaxxers among your loved ones doesn’t really mean living a sheltered life.
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I said “or” though I do know both types and count them among those people I love and care about
 
DeaconSig said:
Yeah, I tend to agree with ph on this one. I have family who do not share my world view or political persuasion. While I care about them, I am not naive enough to think that those of them who believe that President Obama was not an American citizen or that Bill Gates created Covid are good folks. I've had plenty of conversations with them to know they are, by in large, not.

That doesn't mean I do not try and assist them if they need help, but I am honest about who they are and how they may impact the rest of the world.
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I didn’t say everyone was virtuous either
 
I used to be the conservative of my family (ex-military, own guns, very fiscally conservative (zero debt) and think the government is bloated and ineffective). Our parents passed over 20 years ago (right after i graduated from Wake), so i took up those reigns (from my Dad). I am fully over to the left now, I am too smart to be a Republican any longer.

having said that, on Wednesday we are going to air out or grievances...I got a lot of problems with you people and now you're gonna hear about it!!!
 
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Looks like a lot of people here are apologists for toxic whiteness. Disappointing but not surprising. I see people who would have talked about how generous their Confederate uncle is or questioning whether or not supporting Hitler made their aunt a “bad person.”
 
“be ruthless with systems, be kind to people" would mean dismantling toxic whiteness by highlighting the effects of it on people and not claiming it's just a natural state of some "bad" people.
 
TownieDeac said:
I said “or” though I do know both types and count them among those people I love and care about
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Some of us may also have trump voters or anti-vaxxers in our lives who are not the most kind or generous people we know. And we don’t necessarily live sheltered lives for choosing to limit our interactions with them.
 
PhDeac said:
Looks like a lot of people here are apologists for toxic whiteness. Disappointing but not surprising. I see people who would have talked about how generous their Confederate uncle is or questioning whether or not supporting Hitler made their aunt a “bad person.”
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Wow, cool post.
 
I don’t see anything wrong with his post. A lot of you are the neighbor that says I never saw it coming, he couldn’t have done it he’s a good neighbor, a family man, god fearing church attending friend. Ahh no Steve the news is interviewing you because he murdered 6 people and then killed himself.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Me and my sister are the crazy leftists of my family.

To me hating the system is self defeating when you look at the compilation of the US and the inherent rural white voting advantages and realize that moderate progressive movement is the best you can hope to achieve and its going to be a long slog to get there. Freaking out over the Dems for engaging in that slog just plays right into the obstruction of the other side. To me that seems uttterly self defeating.

I have no desire to get mad at anybody here but there seems to be more venom and invective over the moderate left than anybody else, and to me that's just the only realistic movement in this country in that direction.
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Sincere question, couldn’t it also be considered self defeating to limit your politics to what you deem possible? How do you reconcile that with people like MLK, or Angela Davis or any other number of people whose activism wasn’t limited by the politics of pragmatism?
 
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MHBDemon said:
Sincere question, couldn’t it also be considered self defeating to limit your politics to what you deem possible? How do you reconcile that with people like MLK, or Angela Davis or any other number of people whose activism wasn’t limited by the politics of pragmatism?
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evergreen tweet
 
I don't think centrists think "better things aren't possible" tho. It's a comfortable faith in the status quo, not a disbelief that things can be improved.

Unless you want to take the route that they've resigned themselves to a Hobbesian understanding of human nature, I guess.
 
Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Townie gives up.

Townie loves to give Chris shit but I think he’s given up on actual change more than Chris has. Neither thinks big things can get done.

TenaciousKory said:
“be ruthless with systems, be kind to people" would mean dismantling toxic whiteness by highlighting the effects of it on people and not claiming it's just a natural state of some "bad" people.
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hate the sin, love the sinner amirite

Louis Gossett Jr said:
I don’t see anything wrong with his post. A lot of you are the neighbor that says I never saw it coming, he couldn’t have done it he’s a good neighbor, a family man, god fearing church attending friend. Ahh no Steve the news is interviewing you because he murdered 6 people and then killed himself.
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Yep. “I know Cousin Jimmy is anti-vaccine, but I didn’t know he supported Republicans throwing out votes in Atlanta so Stacey Abrams would lose.”
 
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Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Townie gives up.

TenaciousKory said:
I don't think centrists think "better things aren't possible" tho. It's a comfortable faith in the status quo, not a disbelief that things can be improved.

Unless you want to take the route that they've resigned themselves to a Hobbesian understanding of human nature, I guess.
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The “status quo” would naturally include many aspects of society that aren’t improving, and also many that are measurably becoming worse. A person has to decide how important it is that big TVs are getting cheaper, how important it is that we have our first WOC Vice President, or that robots can do heart surgery, all the while health insurance premiums are rising out of control, people are being worked to death in childrens cereal factories, and Roe is likely to be repealed in 2022.

So you may not agree that Centrists don’t believe things can get better, surely you understand why many people interpret centrism in such a way.
 
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