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Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

MHBDemon said:
what is inherent to medicine that isn't inherent to other private industries?
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It's not really a free market.

The demands for services are often compulsory.
There is a huge complexity in the services that doesn't allow comparison shopping.
The nature of the services doesn't really lend itself to pricing transparency.
There are often a very limited number of service providers for specific services in a reasonable geographic radius.

All of these factors lend themselves to price gouging potential.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Just so we can put this strawman to bed.
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Straw person or not, you came to this thread and declared Bernie and his ilk anti-business. My only argument here is that your comments are both simplistic and divisive for the Democratic Party, we got taken down a health care path as an aside to the main purpose of my response. Bernie's objectives are to protect and help people, especially middle class and poor people. That is not anti-business, its pro-people and it is what the Democratic Party claims to stand for. Bernies approach to democratic socialism, whatever the party's website says, is to establish a heavily, well regulated economy where the costs of running the economy are evenly spread as opposed to corporate welfare state we currently have where many of the costs are shouldered by the people.
 
birdman said:
Straw person or not, you came to this thread and declared Bernie and his ilk anti-business. My only argument here is that your comments are both simplistic and divisive for the Democratic Party, we got taken down a health care path as an aside to the main purpose of my response. Bernie's objectives are to protect and help people, especially middle class and poor people. That is not anti-business, its pro-people and it is what the Democratic Party claims to stand for. Bernies approach to democratic socialism, whatever the party's website says, is to establish a heavily, well regulated economy where the costs of running the economy are evenly spread as opposed to corporate welfare state we currently have where many of the costs are shouldered by the people.
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I think that is more social democracy, and you may still be right that it more closely resembles Bernie's vision, but it is not, as I understand it, the vision of democratic socialism.
 
birdman said:
Straw person or not, you came to this thread and declared Bernie and his ilk anti-business. My only argument here is that your comments are both simplistic and divisive for the Democratic Party, we got taken down a health care path as an aside to the main purpose of my response. Bernie's objectives are to protect and help people, especially middle class and poor people. That is not anti-business, its pro-people and it is what the Democratic Party claims to stand for. Bernies approach to democratic socialism, whatever the party's website says, is to establish a heavily, well regulated economy where the costs of running the economy are evenly spread as opposed to corporate welfare state we currently have where many of the costs are shouldered by the people.
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My comments are not simplistic. I commented on several areas where Sanders is significantly to the left of the Nordic economic model. Care to comment on any of those? And my comments are divisive? do you read the debate that goes on here? The entire post essentially reads like a Bernie Sanders campaign ad.
 
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Many people that I speak to on the left, in DSA or not, believe that Bernie's legislative proposals are starting points for legislative bargaining. Their typical opinion, which I share, is that moderate establishment Democrats don't advocate strongly enough for progressive legislation, they aqcuiese and capitulate far too often and too early, seemingly defeating themselves.

It's obviously true that Bernie Sanders legislative proposals wont go anywhere in the current state of congress, but were there more progressives like him they could leverage their power to steer the entire party left - instead we have our own little tea party of conservatives, wagging the dog, who only run as Democrats because the Republican party has no room for them.

Bernie Sanders is a net positive if for nothing else because he is a touchstone for actual progressive liberalism. He's the old crotchety north star.
 
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JuiceCrewAllStar said:
I do hate Bernie’s economic nationalism though
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I think its worth a debate - trade vs manufacturing is not a black & white issue. There are definitely economic sectors where America is choosing a negligibly lower cost of foreign goods over domestic manufacturing, and our trade agreements play a part in that.
Where I believe that decision plays into populist idealogy is that sector by sector, there are some markets where the lower economic classes would specifically prefer American manufacturing jobs (over cheaper goods) because the increased cost of domestically produced goods would be spread out over the country, and not be directly transferred onto the manufacturing labor force.
 
Unlike Trump, Bernie was never going around the country telling layed off plant workers that he was going to bring their jobs back. His point in critisizing and opposing elements of our trade agreements was that the cost of those agreements has been disproportionately paid by the blue collar labor class, while the benefits of the agreements have not made those unemployed people whole.

It's not nationalism to recognize that saving a few hundred bucks on chinese shit from walmart doesn't make up for losing a 25k job and your town dying and getting swept up in the opiod epedemic.
 
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I was speaking from the perspective of global labor solidarity and against American exceptionalism, not supply-side economics.
 
Well personally I am in favor of the United States requiring provisions in international trade deals that require other countries to follow at least some of our rules for labor (like work place safety, child labor, wage standards, etc.) and environmental standards (like pollution controls). It has the triple benefit of helping the environment, helping people around the world lead healthier safer lives, and raises the cost of labor in those countries to put American workers on a more equal playing field. If that makes me a global Marxist clown or an economic nationalist I’m ok with that.
 
I missed this last week. Only 24 Dems voted against this:

This New Bill In Congress Would Imprison People For 10 Years If They Injure A Cop

Republicans and at least one Democrat in Congress rolled out legislation on Tuesday that would imprison people for up to 10 years for seriously injuring a police officer — or attempting to do so — with backers saying a new federal punishment is needed to curb "cowardly assaults" on police.

As videos of white cops shooting and killing black people have sparked moves to increase officer accountability, the Protect and Serve Act in the House and Senate offers a counternarrative: Police are increasingly under fire and their assailants must be punished more harshly.

Civil rights groups, however, have accused the sponsors of conjuring a “war on police,” which they say will further divide law enforcement officers from African Americans.
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Of course Hillary endorses Cuomo over Cynthia Nixon. So much for women helping women. Shit libs gonna shit lib
 
ImTheCaptain said:
the terrible self righteous takes are in full force already this morning.
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Its cute how you just follow me around
https://amp-timeinc-net.cdn.ampproj..._gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQECAEYAQ==#amp_tf=From %1$s
"Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright apologized on Friday for comments that sparked controversy last week while she campaigned for Hillary Clinton, saying it was the wrong time to use her trademark phrase that, “There’s a special place in hell for women who don’t help each other.”..."
In the column, Albright said she still believes women “have an obligation to help one another.”"

Some of us are just more familiar with Hillary's campaign than others, I guess.
 
so you're mad at hillary clinton for a comment of Madeline albright's she walked back....?

keep 'em comin', sport
 
I guess you hadn't heard, "The future is female" or something? I guess that meant torture chief Gina Haspel.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
i guess that's as close as you get to "yeah, i guess i was wrong on that one, huh"
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The introductory speeches given at Hillary's campaign rallies, given by another former female SOS, that women should support other women politically, absolutely represented Hillary's viewpoints. Or Hillary is a huge hypocrite. You'd have to be trolling or dishonest as hell to interpret it otherwise. Please though, twist yourself in knots to disregard example 5,334 of Hillary's blatant hypocrisy - truly yeomans work.
 
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pretty sure you're the one trolling if you're going to draw a hard line on a different woman's statement (that, again, she walked back) is evidence that Hillary is THE DEVIL here

you don't need more excuses to show that hillary sucks.
 
We only debate the most important issues here at the Tunnels.
 
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