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Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

PhDeac said:
If only 87% of Bernie supporters vote for Biden and 4% vote for Trump, that’s more than enough to provide the winning margin in swing states to give Trump a narrow victory just like 2016.

576,916 people voted for Bernie in the 2020 Michigan primary

87-4 margin is 501,917 votes for Biden and 23,077 votes for Trump with 51,922 voting for someone else.

96-0 margin is 553,839 votes for Biden.

Just based on the primary, the difference between voting like Bernie supporters and Warren supporters is a net 68,999 votes.

Trump beat Hillary in Michigan by 10,704 votes.

That tweet is way off. The tweet links the exact problem and then claims it isn’t the problem at all.
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myDeaconmyhand said:
I'm well aware you think that, I just don't know why you keep repeating it *at me*. Maybe these same arguments wouldn't keep repeating themselves if half your posts weren't rhetorical trolling exercises intended to drag people into stupid arguments, for example, you could have just said you disagreed with Osita Nwanevu's tweet, instead of disengeniously acting as if you didn't know what his point was. It might surprise you, but I actually don't enjoy wasting my braincells in these stupid fucking arguments with you, when neither of us are going to change each other's minds.
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Stop misrepresenting my posts. I did disagree with the tweet and explained why. I'm making straight forward good-faith arguments, yet somehow you translate them into "rhetorical trolling exercises."

You tire yourself out by pretending I'm doing something I'm not. Read the words I post. Then respond to those words.
 
PhDeac said:
I did disagree with the tweet and explained why. I'm making straight forward good-faith arguments...Read the words I post. Then respond to those words.
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You posted an unreasonable, ahistorical expectation
PhDeac said:
That tweet is way off. The tweet links the exact problem and then claims it isn’t the problem at all.
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Good faith on your part? No. The premise of the tweet was that Bernie voters will support Biden at the same historical rate that other primary voters have supported the party nominee. All I did was try to inform you of the standard, expected voter loss between primary and general. If you want to set your own internal expectations or standards for voters, go ahead, but don't fucking expect people to read your mind. Ositas opinion is based on precedent, yours is based on your own personal anxiety.
 
Geez man. If expecting supporters of the Dem runner-up to unite behind the Dem nominee is an "unreasonable, ahistorical expectation," progressive politics is an "unreasonable, ahistorical expectation" as well so why bother.

Sure, you tried to inform me of the "standard, expected voter loss between primary and general." And I informed you that it didn't matter.

I hope you realize how you sound with this "We can't do better" and "That's how it's always been" bullshit.

The talking point Osita mentioned was based on anxiety. I was responding about that anxiety. That anxiety is legitimate. Aren't you worried? Aren't you anxious? This should be a collective anxiety about what four more years of Trump and Republican leadership will do to this country.

On the plus side, I'm watching Rachel Bitecofer interview Ben Winkler (WI Dem chair). He said the animosity from Bernie supporters that was palpable in 2016 isn't there anymore.
 
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85-90% would be unity. You demand more because you have no respect for the reasons that people oppose Biden. Respect or not, anxiety won't change the outcome, just like screaming at my paycheck won't make it grow.
 
Can't believe I'm doing this but...

Opposing biden for any reason only helps trump. trump is the result of a unique situation and, in my opinion, requires a uniquely unified response.

... and round and round we go...
 
That mindset is part and parcel of Democratic hypocrisy - purity politics for me and not for thee. Where was that demand for purity when Ady Barkin asked Biden straight to his face if he would support Medicare For All (in the middle of a global pandemic)?
 
If Biden needs every single one of Bernies primary voters, I encourage him to door to door and win their vote. If not, "Que Sera, Sera".
 
deaconson said:
Can't believe I'm doing this but...

Opposing biden for any reason only helps trump. trump is the result of a unique situation and, in my opinion, requires a uniquely unified response.

... and round and round we go...
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define "opposing" - not voting for ... being critical of, what?
 
see also:

TenaciousKory said:
if you have 5 million dollars to start new dem-focused voting campaign do you

1. try to persuade people who aren't interested in politics (too busy, politics doesn't matter to me, etc.) to vote
2. try to persuade people who don't want to vote (system is broken, bernie should have won, etc.) to vote
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Don't be obtuse. By all means keep pushing for biden to continue moving left. If trump has done nothing else he may have single handedly pushed the entire country into new territory. The most progressive platform in history (not far enough but a start) may only have life because of how uniquely awful trump has been. Cheer for that. Believe, and keep fighting for, even bigger change once more people see and enjoy the new protections in this here coronAmerica. Or not. Take your ball home.

*your not being you but someone salty enough to not participate in this moment in history.
 
I think everyone who wants to spend the next 3 months browbeating and shaming potential voters would be much better off using that energy to help disenfranchised people to the polls, because none of you are going to flip that last 5-10% of anti-Biden voters.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
That mindset is part and parcel of Democratic hypocrisy - purity politics for me and not for thee. Where was that demand for purity when Ady Barkin asked Biden straight to his face if he would support Medicare For All (in the middle of a global pandemic)?
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What on earth are you talking about?

Who is the “me” and “thee?” Why would anybody take issue with Barkin asking Biden about M4A?

The Democratic Party mindset for two to three decades has been guided by one central question. “How do we win elections with a broad coalition working against structural disadvantages against a unified homogeneous GOP?”

There’s no call for “purity.” It’s just a call to vote together in November and then work out the differences while in power to actually do something.
 
PhDeac said:
What on earth are you talking about?

Who is the “me” and “thee?” Why would anybody take issue with Barkin asking Biden about M4A?

The Democratic Party mindset for two to three decades has been guided by one central question. “How do we win elections with a broad coalition working against structural disadvantages against a unified homogeneous GOP?”

There’s no call for “purity.” It’s just a call to vote together in November and then work out the differences while in power to actually do something.
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calling for or demanding 100% of bernie voters to fall in line for Biden is a very literal example of purity politics. What's even stupider is that you assuredly know its not going to happen, you're really just setting yourself up with another reason to be condescending and aggrieved at people when you talk about politics after the election.
 
Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Performative and Informative !

You’re being condescending and aggrieved toward me right now.

Wanting people to vote for your candidate is just plain politics.

I can’t believe we are still talking about Bernie. I’m sure a search of this board maybe even this thread. could find plenty of Bernie supporters attacking “centrist” posters who didn’t commit to voting for Bernie if he was the nominee.

And you attacked posters who didn’t support Bernie because they didn’t think he would get enough support from within the party.
 
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PhDeac said:
I can’t believe we are still talking about Bernie.
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Right? Just imagine if you had just reasonably responded to that Osita tweet, instead of going on a tangent about how any level.of voter defection was a problem.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Right? Just imagine if you had just reasonably responded to that Osita tweet, instead of going on a tangent about how any level.of voter defection was a problem.
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The tweet said that voter defection wasn’t a problem. I showed that it is.

I feel like you’re arguing from a different universe.
 
PhDeac said:
The tweet said that voter defection wasn’t a problem. I showed that it is.

I feel like you’re arguing from a different universe.
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I guess we are in different universes. There are people who refuse to let the Democratic Party use Donald Trump as a convenient excuse to quash or deligitimize their dissent from establishment politics. Even if I don't feel as strongly or stubbornly as those people, I surely feel more in common with them than you. I don't think I have anything else to say on the topic.
 
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