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Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

I really want this to be true. The problem is still moscow mitch. No vote without him. He needs his seat to get really hot. Any delay needs to be pinned on him like trump shutting the govt down. It's such a failure of leadership that they can't make this stuff stick.
 
Democrats don’t want to be perceived as playing politics.

Republicans love to be perceived as playing politics.
 
PhDeac said:
Democrats don’t want to be perceived as playing politics.

Republicans love to be perceived as playing politics.
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and the country is fucking burning

hell of a time to be playing politics about playing politics
 
Strickland33 said:
and the country is fucking burning

hell of a time to be playing politics about playing politics
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That’s the point. The country is burning. Republicans don’t care that it’s burning so Democrats are trying to put it out however they can as quickly as possible. You’re complaining that they’re not putting the fire out with locally sourced spring water.
 
PhDeac said:
That’s the point. The country is burning. Republicans don’t care that it’s burning so Democrats are trying to put it out however they can as quickly as possible. You’re complaining that they’re not putting the fire out with locally sourced spring water.
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Wow. How out of touch are you, man?

Tens of millions are unemployed. Small businesses nationwide are closing because they're defaulting on rents and loans. The fucking Postal Service is collapsing. The executive branch is playing politics with an already inadequate supply of PPE and testing equipment. These stimulus bills are inadequate to say the least. They are baseline. They are band-aids on hatchet wounds.

Reading your posts charitably, you're saying that this is the best that Congressional Democrats can do.

Reading your posts cynically, you're saying that you don't give a shit because the worse it gets, the better it looks for Biden in the fall.

Either reflects just pathetically low expectations for the role of government in a once-in-a-century pandemic crisis.
 
It's not about putting points on the board right now; it's about bailing out the American people. Playing politics in the midst of a pandemic is fucking disgusting whether it's "do nothing" Democratic bullshit or Republican scarcity scapegoating.
 
You're not reading my post at all. REPUBLICANS DO NOT CARE THAT THE COUNTRY IS FUCKING BURNING. This is the reality. Democrats don't have leverage. You don't have leverage negotiating with people who don't care. And there's no time to go to the people and make a public plea to try to turn them against Republicans. The only response they'll get from the public is "Take care of this shit. My family is struggling. We don't have time for politics."

What's your plan to get everything you want (which is everything I want and what most people here want) past Mitch and the Senate GOP? They've got to be on board. They're not going to derail their long term plan of destabilizing USPS for this. They're not going to all of a sudden give a shit.
 
PhDeac said:
You're not reading my post at all. REPUBLICANS DO NOT CARE THAT THE COUNTRY IS FUCKING BURNING. This is the reality. Democrats don't have leverage. You don't have leverage negotiating with people who don't care. And there's no time to go to the people and make a public plea to try to turn them against Republicans. The only response they'll get from the public is "Take care of this shit. My family is struggling. We don't have time for politics."

What's your plan to get everything you want (which is everything I want and what most people here want) past Mitch and the Senate GOP? They've got to be on board. They're not going to derail their long term plan of destabilizing USPS for this. They're not going to all of a sudden give a shit.
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I'm not a Congressional Democrat. Neither are you. They need a plan and don't have one. You and I don't.

I'm just trying to get y'all to admit that this is grossly inadequate and that these so-called compromises are just baseline things that absolutely must happen if the country is going to avoid a Depression and mass causalities. Our representatives are failing us. Some of y'all are giving them a passing grade.
 
Strickland33 said:
Tens of millions are unemployed. Small businesses nationwide are closing because they're defaulting on rents and loans. The fucking Postal Service is collapsing. The executive branch is playing politics with an already inadequate supply of PPE and testing equipment. These stimulus bills are inadequate to say the least. They are baseline. They are band-aids on hatchet wounds.
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And yet you are freaking out about a bill that provides

1. Payroll protection for small businesses.
2. Hospital funding
3. Testing funding
 
Step 1: Democrats make demands for USPS, vote by mail, state/local government $$$, EBT money, etc;
Step 2: Republicans sake "Fuck you!"
Step 3" Democrats say "if you don't include our agenda, we won't assist you in passing the legislation you proposed;
Step 4: Republicans say "Fuck you! We don't give a shit if anything passes or not!"
Step 5: ????

I'm all for pushing for more stuff, I'm just curious as to the actual path to make fucksticks like McConnell, Trump, and McCarthy actually give a shit about people, when the evidence is clear that they don't.

And my post is not an attempt to be cynical. I am curious as to what solutions people have.
 
ChrisL68 said:
And yet you are freaking out about a bill that provides

1. Payroll protection for small businesses.
2. Hospital funding
3. Testing funding
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They didn't get everything they want and didn't get it delivered free to their homes.
 
DeaconSig said:
Step 1: Democrats make demands for USPS, vote by mail, state/local government $$$, EBT money, etc;
Step 2: Republicans sake "Fuck you!"
Step 3" Democrats say "if you don't include our agenda, we won't assist you in passing the legislation you proposed;
Step 4: Republicans say "Fuck you! We don't give a shit if anything passes or not!"
Step 5: ????

I'm all for pushing for more stuff, I'm just curious as to the actual path to make fucksticks like McConnell, Trump, and McCarthy actually give a shit about people, when the evidence is clear that they don't.

And my post is not an attempt to be cynical. I am curious as to what solutions people have.
Click to expand...

Well said.

I think the House should pass a reasonable messaging bill and promote the hell out of it, but that doesn't mean they should refrain from passing anything until they get what they want.
 
DeaconSig said:
Step 1: Democrats make demands for USPS, vote by mail, state/local government $$$, EBT money, etc;
Step 2: Republicans sake "Fuck you!"
Step 3" Democrats say "if you don't include our agenda, we won't assist you in passing the legislation you proposed;
Step 4: Republicans say "Fuck you! We don't give a shit if anything passes or not!"
Step 5: ????

I'm all for pushing for more stuff, I'm just curious as to the actual path to make fucksticks like McConnell, Trump, and McCarthy actually give a shit about people, when the evidence is clear that they don't.

And my post is not an attempt to be cynical. I am curious as to what solutions people have.
Click to expand...

I appreciate this post vs. Ph's spring water bullshit and ChrisL's progressive twitter shtick.

If the outcome is going to be lukewarm legislation anyway, then why not call Republicans on their bluffs? Try actually negotiating. Don't let it pass and actually force the other side to compromise while flooding the media with the actual message. Rather than sneaking winking pork like funding the Kennedy Center into legislation, keep the legislation lean and mean. USPS because everybody needs mail. Vote-by-mail because it's only sensible to do in a pandemic. State/local government money because they're ultimately being tasked with implementation of public health policy right now (because Trump is a coward). EBT money because those 11 million people who are unemployed and the 40+ million people already using the program need to eat when they're being forced to shelter-in-place.

What would you do?

ChrisL68 said:
And yet you are freaking out about a bill that provides

1. Payroll protection for small businesses.
2. Hospital funding
3. Testing funding
Click to expand...

The issue for small businesses is both payroll protection and an inability to pay their rent and mortgages. From what I'm hearing, most businesses have already laid off or furloughed enough workers to stay afloat if their landlords and banks would cut them some slack during this time. The PPP, as Juice points out, was already included in the CARES Act.

I'm not sure that the 2 and 3 will ultimately do much to stop the bleeding given the fact that neither addresses the underlying problem that Trump is playing states off of each other and his administration is playing politics with the distribution of resources. We'll see.

It's a band-aid on a hatchet wound and the concessions are merely what should have been in there in the first place. If Pelosi and Schumer can't get it done, then they should step down and let somebody more up to the task take over.
 
DeaconSig said:
Step 1: Democrats make demands for USPS, vote by mail, state/local government $$$, EBT money, etc;
Step 2: Republicans sake "Fuck you!"
Step 3" Democrats say "if you don't include our agenda, we won't assist you in passing the legislation you proposed;
Step 4: Republicans say "Fuck you! We don't give a shit if anything passes or not!"
Step 5: ????

I'm all for pushing for more stuff, I'm just curious as to the actual path to make fucksticks like McConnell, Trump, and McCarthy actually give a shit about people, when the evidence is clear that they don't.

And my post is not an attempt to be cynical. I am curious as to what solutions people have.
Click to expand...

go back in time and stop pelosi from insisting on PAYGO
 
From what I am seeing, there are tons of businesses that applied for assistance under PPP and didn't get loans and are concerned about viability.

There are other small business programs for dealing with other costs. There is a 1% interest rate EIDL loan program where the 1st $10k was forgiven and you can also use 25% of your PPP costs for non-payroll costs.
 
Strickland33 said:
I appreciate this post vs. Ph's spring water bullshit and ChrisL's progressive twitter shtick.

If the outcome is going to be lukewarm legislation anyway, then why not call Republicans on their bluffs? Try actually negotiating. Don't let it pass and actually force the other side to compromise while flooding the media with the actual message. Rather than sneaking winking pork like funding the Kennedy Center into legislation, keep the legislation lean and mean. USPS because everybody needs mail. Vote-by-mail because it's only sensible to do in a pandemic. State/local government money because they're ultimately being tasked with implementation of public health policy right now (because Trump is a coward). EBT money because those 11 million people who are unemployed and the 40+ million people already using the program need to eat when they're being forced to shelter-in-place.

What would you do?
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily disagree with your approach, but my guess is that D's still lose (1) because the world we live in does not allow any significant public consensus to turn against R's (the 40% of R's will listen to whatever bullshit is spoon-fed them by the echo-chamber- look no further than sailor and theReff for proof); (2) pubs know that the public consensus will not shift; (3) due to (1) and (2) 'pubs are willing to let the world burn instead of making a deal.

I mean, LK, who is a fairly reasonable poster, was on here during the lead up to the CARES votes talking about how vote-by-mail shouldn't be in CARES, and shouldn't hold up relief for everybody. Its entirely possible that that was the ONLY time that vote-by-mail could have passed, although there is an equal chance that if dems had demanded it, we would still not have a CARES act.
 
TownieDeac said:
go back in time and stop pelosi from insisting on PAYGO
Click to expand...

Good luck Sisyphus of convincing this group that Pelosi and Chuck are saboteurs, or even incompetent. Around here the buck never makes it past Cocaine Mitch.
 
DeaconSig said:
Step 1: Democrats make demands for USPS, vote by mail, state/local government $$$, EBT money, etc;
Step 2: Republicans sake "Fuck you!"
Step 3" Democrats say "if you don't include our agenda, we won't assist you in passing the legislation you proposed;
Step 4: Republicans say "Fuck you! We don't give a shit if anything passes or not!"
Step 5: ????

I'm all for pushing for more stuff, I'm just curious as to the actual path to make fucksticks like McConnell, Trump, and McCarthy actually give a shit about people, when the evidence is clear that they don't.

And my post is not an attempt to be cynical. I am curious as to what solutions people have.
Click to expand...


WHY don’t the Dems use the magic wand!!!
 
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