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Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

You should decide based on available evidence. Instead of calling people with whom you disagree “loathsome pathetic fucks” you could make a persuasive argument about why Reade’s allegation meets any reasonable burden of proof. Not even proof beyond a reasonable double, since the court of public opinion is not a court of law. Just proof sufficient to end someone’s career and derail the most important Dem nominee in possibly a generation. The facts of this case can, and may, of course evolve over time/investigation(s), but your inability to engage in civil discourse, not to mention the fact that you can’t provide factual support for you position is pretty much indicative of why you’ve resorted to baseless name calling. And it is generally why nobody takes you seriously or enjoys interacting with you here.

Civil discourse is you and PH demand I provide evidence that someone else was raped? How about you jump up your own ass. When you dismiss sexual assault concerns about a major nominee as sour grapes, of course I'm going to fight back. If you want civil discourse then be civil. What I expected was that proclaimed liberals not be so quick to dismiss legitimate sexual assault allegations.
 
Maybe the "m&m boys" just don't get along well with you buttoned up dickheads, perhaps it's not just politics. Maybe us spending 4 years in the same location with the same shitty basketball program doesnt mean we share the same culture.
 
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Civil discourse is you and PH demand I provide evidence that someone else was raped? How about you jump up your own ass. When you dismiss sexual assault concerns about a major nominee as sour grapes, of course I'm going to fight back. If you want civil discourse then be civil. What I expected was that proclaimed liberals not be so quick to dismiss legitimate sexual assault allegations.

Yeah you should provide a basis for why you believe her. And it may be as simple as you find her genuine and Biden has a history of inappropriate touching. That’s not sufficient for me; but it may be for you and many others. Or whatever else you’re considering. But nobody is lacking in civility re: you. I don’t believe her based on what we know now. I doubt much will come of further digging. If so we’ll see. But again, the fact that you can’t have a conversation without telling someone to “jump up their own ass” is what people do when they’re angry, in a corner, and ultimately unable to articulate anything persuasive in an intelligent way.
 
Yeah you should provide a basis for why you believe her. And it may be as simple as you find her genuine and Biden has a history of inappropriate touching. That’s not sufficient for me; but it may be for you and many others. Or whatever else you’re considering. But nobody is lacking in civility re: you. I don’t believe her based on what we know now. I doubt much will come of further digging. If so we’ll see. But again, the fact that you can’t have a conversation without telling someone to “jump up their own ass” is what people do when they’re angry, in a corner, and ultimately unable to articulate anything persuasive in an intelligent way.

It's pretty clear that we're arguing past each other. I don't care whether or not you believe her, but what I'm not going to let you do, is dismiss my opinion about sexual assault as sour grapes about Bernie. This has duck all to do with liking Bernie or Biden. You and Ph were both wrong for making thar implication, and you deserved me chewing your asses for it.
 
I don’t think anyone has a problem throwing shade/digs back and forth. I do it. It’s a message board. But there’s not much substance with you at this point other than your shit talking and ultra-liberal, “I have greater moral fiber than moderates” persona. Do you ever wonder why everyone is an “asshole” in your view? Maybe reflect on that.
 
I haven't even fucking said I believe the woman, all I said was that Democrats would be too afraid to investigate it, and the voters wouldn't care anyway.
 
I’m going to let you in on a secret. Men make up about half of juries and half of the public. We can and should provide structure to protect sexual assault victims that addresses the institutional inequalities that protect male assailants; but we also can’t ignore evidence or throw reason out the window. Considering a delay is reporting, especially within the context of a shifting story - one that escalated from harassment in 2019 to rape in 2020 around the time Biden took control of the primary - is perfectly reasonable. It is neither qualifying or disqualifying for a claim of sexual assault. But it can be taken into account objectively. As bad as we are, collectively, and historically, in grappling with sexual assault in a male dominated society - it seems pretty widely accepted that many legitimate victims of sexual assault delay, or more commonly never, report their assaults. That’s why context and other evidence matters, as it does in Reade’s case. At least for me. And if some compelling evidence on her behalf arise; I and everyone should reserve the right to weigh it and change their conclusion if necessary.

I wasn't asking you (or the author) to throw reason out the window? I'm saying that the expertise (ex-prosecutor) that he uses to establish his ethos at the beginning crumbles when he begins attempting to frame reporting lapses as if they're abnormal.

I'm saying that shouldn't even make the list of reasons/evidence to dismiss a sexual assault claim by any standard. With good reason! These lapses in reporting are common because of the ontological violence/trauma of a sexual assault.

So when I see something like that at the top of a list for reasons why I should hold skepticism for a sexual assault claim, I do the reasonable thing and stop reading.
 
Maybe the "m&m boys" just don't get along well with you buttoned up dickheads, perhaps it's not just politics. Maybe us spending 4 years in the same location with the same shitty basketball program doesnt mean we share the same culture.

The LAST thing anyone who knew me at Wake or in past 45 years after Wake would EVER call me is "buttoned up". But you IMMEDIATELY call EVERYONE that if they don't genuflect to your positions without question or discourse. No one can disagree with you without being attacked and insulted.

Again, I still haven't called you a name, but in every one of your posts you call others names. This is and has been your choice of action.
 
I don’t think anyone has a problem throwing shade/digs back and forth. I do it. It’s a message board. But there’s not much substance with you at this point other than your shit talking and ultra-liberal, “I have greater moral fiber than moderates” persona. Do you ever wonder why everyone is an “asshole” in your view? Maybe reflect on that.

Strangely there's a very high correlation of weathier 40+ something's that went to a semi-prestigious private school. I dunno, maybe it's just a coincidence. I wonder if there's any statistical data regarding this?
 
I wasn't asking you (or the author) to throw reason out the window? I'm saying that the expertise (ex-prosecutor) that he uses to establish his ethos at the beginning crumbles when he begins attempting to frame reporting lapses as if they're abnormal.

I'm saying that shouldn't even make the list of reasons/evidence to dismiss a sexual assault claim by any standard. With good reason! These lapses in reporting are common because of the ontological violence/trauma of a sexual assault.

So when I see something like that at the top of a list for reasons why I should hold skepticism for a sexual assault claim, I do the reasonable thing and stop reading.

If she had been consistent, she'd be more believable. But she's been all over the map. There is no way to know which story to believe.

What pisses me off about her is that she makes it harder for other women to come forward. She puts the bar out of reach for many. She increases the oppressive pressure on all survivors.
 
If she had been consistent, she'd be more believable. But she's been all over the map. There is no way to know which story to believe.

What pisses me off about her is that she makes it harder for other women to come forward. She puts the bar out of reach for many. She increases the oppressive pressure on all survivors.

srs q: You think all sexual assault survivors should be able to present consistent stories (especially about a case that happened almost three decades ago)?
 
Civil discourse is you and PH demand I provide evidence that someone else was raped? How about you jump up your own ass. When you dismiss sexual assault concerns about a major nominee as sour grapes, of course I'm going to fight back. If you want civil discourse then be civil. What I expected was that proclaimed liberals not be so quick to dismiss legitimate sexual assault allegations.

No. If YOU want civil discourse then be civil. Respond to what I say not whatever your sad little mind comes up with.

Once again, there have been plenty of investigation of Reade's allegations. What more do you want in terms of investigations? Just explain it. Until you do explain it, I'm just going to assume you will not accept any investigation that doesn't return the result you want.
 
I don't know why people like RJ believe it's so important for them to make a judgement. You're not a fucking juror. All your doing is scaring people into not coming forward about rape and sexual assault. Joe Biden doesn't need your help.
 
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No. If YOU want civil discourse then be civil. Respond to what I say not whatever your sad little mind comes up with.

Once again, there have been plenty of investigation of Reade's allegations. What more do you want in terms of investigations? Just explain it. Until you do explain it, I'm just going to assume you will not accept any investigation that doesn't return the result you want.

I was being perfectly civil, you responded to my post like an asshole. I don't owe you shit. It's not my fault you can't defend your political party without insulting me. I came here to talk about politics, but you want to make it personal, so I'll get down in the dirt with you.
 
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That wasn't civil. You completely misrepresented what I said because you can't answer a simple question.

There have been plenty of investigations. What more do you want? Just answer the question.
 
To start, pH, I'd suggest you stop dismissing every criticism of Biden as posters own sour grapes. How about you just talk about Biden.
 
srs q: You think all sexual assault survivors should be able to present consistent stories (especially about a case that happened almost three decades ago)?

About the central issues? Absolutely.

If you have had a traumatic event in your life, you remember it.

I haven't had a sexual assault, but I've had several very traumatic events in my life and can remember them all. I wish I couldn't, but I can.

In regards this person, she knew she was going to be in the public eye. The best way for her to get through it would be to rehearse it with friends, write it down or other methods to keep herself consistent. She knew she'd be questioned.

Add to those concepts that she chose to share her story. She wasn't outed or found. She found the media.

Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt until they prove they don't deserve it.

I truly believe she has harmed lots of other survivors.
 
Why do you keep demanding to know what I want? I'm not a lawyer. I don't even know what's possible. All I know is that some re-hashing of Joe's Veep private vetting isn't satisfactory.
 
I disagree with all of the reason to dismiss Reade. Sexual assault comes with a heavy psychological burden for the victim. They blame them selves and live in fear that it will happen again. It is plausible that her story has been inconsistent because of the heavy psychological burden of shame and fear and that could also be why it took a very long time to report. Assault of any kind is traumatic and memories of these events are often fragmented and incomplete. Sexual assault carries even more trauma because so often the assailant is familiar to the victim this leaving the victim fearful of who will attack them next. Nothing that Reade has done falls out side the normal distribution for sexual assault victims and dismissing her claims on the basis of inconsistent stories and the time it took her to report anything shows and complete misunderstanding or disregard for assault victims and their trauma.
 
I don't know why people like RJ believe it's so important for them to make a judgement. You're not a fucking juror. All your doing is scaring people into not coming forward about rape and sexual assault. Joe Biden doesn't need your help.

It's exactly the opposite. She is scaring others into silence.

Every time she changes her story and creates doubt, others are frightened.

Sorry, you make assumptions about everyone who doesn't kowtow to your exact beliefs. Only you can be right. It doesn't matter the subject. If anyone disagrees even 1% with you, they are the enemy.
 
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