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Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

House Democrats are passing Progressive bills despite a pretty narrow margin. Senate Democrats have no margin. In a 50/50 Senate, one or two senators have all the power. That’s what we have here. Given the situation, things have improved significantly. None of the progressive advances we are talking about now were on the table in 2009 with 60 Dem senators.

#whytry?
 
Lol they are trying. Biden set out an agenda and hes getting as much of it passed as he can with the current composition of congress.
 
Maybe its Mike Duncan's podcasts getting to me but it feels like progressives need to disassociate from the liberal bourgeois centrist Dems if they're ever going to be successful. The Democratic Party have been equally culpable in this nation's backslide into regressive conservatism over the last 40 years.

The economic inequality of this time period isn't that different than of the industrial revolution that influenced Marx and Ingles. People want an alternative to the corporatist status quo and right now the only viable American one is the Fascist right. Break away and give them an alternative then siding with our modern robber barons who control the Democratic Party.
 

I just outlined how they’re trying. The House is passing good bills that the vast majority of Senate Democrats support but there’s no margin of error. What do you want Biden to try that they haven’t tried? They have no power over Manchin. He’s a 74 year old corporate conservative Democrat from elected in a heavily Trump state. His eventual replacement will certainly be a Republican.

Brasky, there are two avenues to political power, the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. Saying Progressives should disassociate from the Democratic Party to make meaningful change is like saying the Panthers should disassociate from the NFC to win the Super Bowl. The path is to take over the party. Progressive policy goals are at the forefront of the Democratic Party like we’ve never seen. But it’s going to take more work to take over the party.

Again, we’ve seen this done on the other side. Fascists were fed up with their establishment and took over the GOP.
 
Maybe its Mike Duncan's podcasts getting to me but it feels like progressives need to disassociate from the liberal bourgeois centrist Dems if they're ever going to be successful. The Democratic Party have been equally culpable in this nation's backslide into regressive conservatism over the last 40 years.

The economic inequality of this time period isn't that different than of the industrial revolution that influenced Marx and Ingles. People want an alternative to the corporatist status quo and right now the only viable American one is the Fascist right. Break away and give them an alternative then siding with our modern robber barons who control the Democratic Party.

As long as the Republican Party stands as a unified existential threat to minorities than leftists will never seriously abandon the Democratic Party. The threat of a schism is read as nothing less than traitorous to civil rights. Both parties have to be destroyed concurrently.
 
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I just outlined how they’re trying. The House is passing good bills that the vast majority of Senate Democrats support but there’s no margin of error. What do you want Biden to try that they haven’t tried? They have no power over Manchin. He’s a 74 year old corporate conservative Democrat from elected in a heavily Trump state. His eventual replacement will certainly be a Republican.

Brasky, there are two avenues to political power, the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. Saying Progressives should disassociate from the Democratic Party to make meaningful change is like saying the Panthers should disassociate from the NFC to win the Super Bowl. The path is to take over the party. Progressive policy goals are at the forefront of the Democratic Party like we’ve never seen. But it’s going to take more work to take over the party.

Again, we’ve seen this done on the other side. Fascists were fed up with their establishment and took over the GOP.

If Fascists continue to control the Right, and Progressives somehow take control of the Left, where does the corporate money that actually writes our legislation go?
 
I think in that situation corp money shifts to interests the left has, like green energy bc I can’t see the party ever going full social democracy trying to nationalize industries or anything

But the better case scenario is we figure out how to get money properly out of politics, from campaigning to writing legislation to revolving door
 
I think in that situation corp money shifts to interests the left has, like green energy bc I can’t see the party ever going full social democracy trying to nationalize industries or anything

But the better case scenario is we figure out how to get money properly out of politics, from campaigning to writing legislation to revolving door

I agree. I don’t have any spreadsheets but I think this movement of money has already been happening if only because the wealthiest areas of the country are represented by increasingly progressive Dems.

Getting money out of politics involves radically changing how politicians are expected to be in touch with their constituents and their overall engagement with the public. Even if we change campaign finance, lobbying laws, Citizens United, etc etc, money will find a way to talk.
 
Exactly. We are a million miles away from representative democracy as it stands today, at least ideologically speaking.


 
Exactly. We are a million miles away from representative democracy as it stands today, at least ideologically speaking.


The GOP does not hide their opposition and demonization of all those policies, And they consistently get around 50% of the national vote so....
 
The GOP does not hide their opposition and demonization of all those policies, And they consistently get around 50% of the national vote so....

That's because Republicans realized their voters vote based on culture and identity stuff vs. policies. In one way its why Republicans are good at the art of politics and Democrats suck at it. This entire fight over the Democrat's agenda sorta paints this picture. Democrats think if they provide all these popular programs people are going to be thankful and vote for them. People may enjoy the programs like social security and medicare which Republicans would love to destroy policy wise, but they continue to vote for Republicans because of culture and team sport politics.

Yes, a lot of it is white identity racial issues, but every single election in probably the last 30 years the republicans gin up some cultural wedge issue because they realize it's the only thing their voters actually care about. The other reason is, for the most part, people are too stupid to understand complex policy ideas or the nuance of solutions; Republicans are great at messaging and boiling things into simple talking points whether they are true or not.
 
The GOP does not hide their opposition and demonization of all those policies, And they consistently get around 50% of the national vote so....

Why do you feel the need to constantly point out the absolute most obvious? Is there no room in your life for subtext or context or anything? I literally just said that same thing, we don’t elect people based on policy. Thanks for stepping up though.
 
Why do you feel the need to constantly point out the absolute most obvious? Is there no room in your life for subtext or context or anything? I literally just said that same thing, we don’t elect people based on policy. Thanks for stepping up though.
Because you keep bitching about it like it is some magic elixer?

I mean seriously how many times have you posted the exact same thing? we get it.

When I point out how poorly suited progressives are to bridge that cultural gap i get called a bunch of names by the progressive intelligencia here. The Colin Powell discussion on that other thread is a perfect example. Raving about how he's a war criminal and you should spit on his grave might play well with jacobin, but I guarantee you it plays poorly in middle america culturally.
 
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The GOP does not hide their opposition and demonization of all those policies, And they consistently get around 50% of the national vote so....

Because our elections are no longer about winning policy debates or good policy proposals, they are solely about money and charisma.
 
That's because Republicans realized their voters vote based on culture and identity stuff vs. policies. In one way its why Republicans are good at the art of politics and Democrats suck at it. This entire fight over the Democrat's agenda sorta paints this picture. Democrats think if they provide all these popular programs people are going to be thankful and vote for them. People may enjoy the programs like social security and medicare which Republicans would love to destroy policy wise, but they continue to vote for Republicans because of culture and team sport politics.

Yes, a lot of it is white identity racial issues, but every single election in probably the last 30 years the republicans gin up some cultural wedge issue because they realize it's the only thing their voters actually care about. The other reason is, for the most part, people are too stupid to understand complex policy ideas or the nuance of solutions; Republicans are great at messaging and boiling things into simple talking points whether they are true or not.

Yep
 
Because our elections are no longer about winning policy debates or good policy proposals, they are solely about money and charisma.
Well while people might support individual free lunch programs in a poll there is an overall culture in this country, justified or not, of rugged individualism and skepticism of a nanny state.

So the messaging of just piling on a bunch of free stuff that you're going to give certain segments of the population and pointing to their popularity is not working from a messaging standpoint
 
They want government programs for themselves but not for others like when America was “great.”

That’s why Republicans can run on faux populism and get their votes but Democrats run on expanding these programs to everyone and they can’t.
 
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