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So how exactly did this happen?

FuckmouthedRube said:
Built off the 2012 Romney map and focused on adding FL, OH, and PA. Saw some commonalities across OH, PA, MI, WI, and IA. Curious how he's going to bring manufacturing jobs back to the Midwest. Can relax/roll back stardards on coal, but the union auto jobs aren't coming back from SC and AL. Will probably use Pence to calm down evangelicals on social issues, but he probably knows all the Midwest Governors and could help there too.

HRC was a shitty candidate and her campaign was incredulous that she didn't have a walk over in the Obama 2012 states. As bad as it was, could have been worse if Trump hadn't alienated Latinos and Mormons in the West.
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The Midwest auto jobs would come back if you broke the unions. The labor force there is incredible for auto construction and repair. They have done it their whole lives and many of them have had it handed down generationally (I know because a good portion of my family lives in Michigan and are auto people).

Think of the paradigm shift if they finally said no to the unions. I think almost immediately you would see the current auto companies reinvest in their properties in the region and the next time a bid came for a new plant you would have experienced people ready to go to work on a level playing field with South Carolina and mississippi.

Don't get me wrong - Mississippi loves the auto plants that are being built here and the jobs and tax money that comes out of that but there is really no reason those plants shouldn't be built in Michigan. The state is just dealing with half the deck.


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Wrangor said:
The Midwest auto jobs would come back if you broke the unions. The labor force there is incredible for auto construction and repair. They have done it their whole lives and many of them have had it handed down generationally (I know because a good portion of my family lives in Michigan and are auto people).

Think of the paradigm shift if they finally said no to the unions. I think almost immediately you would see the current auto companies reinvest in their properties in the region and the next time a bid came for a new plant you would have experienced people ready to go to work on a level playing field with South Carolina and mississippi.

Don't get me wrong - Mississippi loves the auto plants that are being built here and the jobs and tax money that comes out of that but there is really no reason those plants shouldn't be built in Michigan. The state is just dealing with half the deck.


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They'll never admit it, but this.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I absolutely agree that Hillary's lack of vision was uninspiring for Democrats, I just disagree that Republican turnout was bolstered by political correctness.

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You aren't listening to the electorate then because this absolutely played a part.


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Wrangor said:
You aren't listening to the electorate then because this absolutely played a part.


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Let's all pause and enjoy the decision to willfully ignore the off-putting nature of your political message after it failed to resonate the first time. It's one thing to miss it in real time, but this is basically the OGB version of the replay official getting it wrong.

Companion: "Hey, MDMH, here are the GPS directions to our destination, are you ready to go?"
MDMH: "Nah man, I'm straight. I don't need any directions. I know where we're going."
[Smashcut to picture of MDMH and his companion lost in the woods]
Companion: "Well, the bad news is the party just ended. I hope everyone else had a good time."
MDMH: "F'ing directions. Who needs 'em, am I right?"
 
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jhmd2000 said:
Noted. Please don't change a thing in 2020.
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As I noted in a previous post, MDMH is prepared to go the distance with his positions. That is why he is my #1-ranked millennial liberal on the boards. He isn't going to adjust or reconsider any of them. He is dead-sure that he is right and that anyone who disagrees with any position he takes is wrong. Always. (And they are probably also a sexist, homophobic racist, anyway)
 
bobknightfan said:
As I noted in a previous post, MDMH is prepared to go the distance with his positions. That is why he is my #1-ranked millennial liberal on the boards. He isn't going to adjust or reconsider any of them. He is dead-sure that he is right and that anyone who disagrees with any position he takes is wrong. Always. (And they are probably also a sexist, homophobic racist, anyway)
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Ruling?
 
Wrangor said:
The Midwest auto jobs would come back if you broke the unions. The labor force there is incredible for auto construction and repair. They have done it their whole lives and many of them have had it handed down generationally (I know because a good portion of my family lives in Michigan and are auto people).

Think of the paradigm shift if they finally said no to the unions. I think almost immediately you would see the current auto companies reinvest in their properties in the region and the next time a bid came for a new plant you would have experienced people ready to go to work on a level playing field with South Carolina and mississippi.

Don't get me wrong - Mississippi loves the auto plants that are being built here and the jobs and tax money that comes out of that but there is really no reason those plants shouldn't be built in Michigan. The state is just dealing with half the deck.


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Are the Mississippi plants actually paying taxes? Are the jobs paying good money?
 
I think the problem with the electoral college is that it was designed so that the states could represent their individual interests at a time when there was less diversity within a state regarding those interests.

Now you go and look at a place, like Florida, where within the state there is a significant diversity of interests among the regions and the electoral college results accounting for one group's interests.

Id be good with redesigning it to correspond with Congressional districts and the overall winner getting the two senate votes.
 
bobknightfan said:
You don't think I am willing to change my position when I decide that I've been wrong?

I think maybe you are the one who needs a ruling.
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Nice little hedge here. You're a clever wordsmith. So you think MDMH is unwilling to change his position when he decides he's been wrong?
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Nice little hedge here. You're a clever wordsmith. So you think MDMH is unwilling to change his position when he decides he's been wrong?
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Well, not exactly. I don't believe that he was reached the point in life yet where he ever considered the possibility that he could be wrong about anything. As I've said before, it's what you learn after you know it all that really counts. MDMH hasn't reached that point in life yet.
 
DeaconCav06 said:
I think the problem with the electoral college is that it was designed so that the states could represent their individual interests at a time when there was less diversity within a state regarding those interests.

Now you go and look at a place, like Florida, where within the state there is a significant diversity of interests among the regions and the electoral college results accounting for one group's interests.

Id be good with redesigning it to correspond with Congressional districts and the overall winner getting the two senate votes.
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So you want gerrymandering to play a role in the presidential election as well.
 
Well, in my scenario we would be redrawing my districts on a purely statistical model.
 
bobknightfan said:
Well, not exactly. I don't believe that he was reached the point in life yet where he ever considered the possibility that he could be wrong about anything. As I've said before, it's what you learn after you know it all that really counts. MDMH hasn't reached that point in life yet.
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So you and MDMH are exactly the same, great!

By the way, the spoiled millennial brats rolled the quad Tuesday night. Can't wait for them to grow up and learn better in the real world !
 
Should be required reading for and comprehened by the resident left liberals:

"Clinton’s supporters among the media didn’t help much, either. It always struck me as strange that such an unpopular candidate enjoyed such robust and unanimous endorsements from the editorial and opinion pages of the nation’s papers, but it was the quality of the media’s enthusiasm that really harmed her. With the same arguments repeated over and over, two or three times a day, with nuance and contrary views all deleted, the act of opening the newspaper started to feel like tuning in to a Cold War propaganda station. Here’s what it consisted of:

Hillary was virtually without flaws. She was a peerless leader clad in saintly white, a super-lawyer, a caring benefactor of women and children, a warrior for social justice.
Her scandals weren’t real.
The economy was doing well / America was already great.
Working-class people weren’t supporting Trump.
And if they were, it was only because they were botched humans. Racism was the only conceivable reason for lining up with the Republican candidate.
How did the journalists’ crusade fail? The fourth estate came together in an unprecedented professional consensus. They chose insulting the other side over trying to understand what motivated them. They transformed opinion writing into a vehicle for high moral boasting. What could possibly have gone wrong with such an approach?"

"Put this question in slightly more general terms and you are confronting the single great mystery of 2016. The American white-collar class just spent the year rallying around a super-competent professional (who really wasn’t all that competent) and either insulting or silencing everyone who didn’t accept their assessment. And then they lost. Maybe it’s time to consider whether there’s something about shrill self-righteousness, shouted from a position of high social status, that turns people away.

The even larger problem is that there is a kind of chronic complacency that has been rotting American liberalism for years, a hubris that tells Democrats they need do nothing different, they need deliver nothing really to anyone – except their friends on the Google jet and those nice people at Goldman. The rest of us are treated as though we have nowhere else to go and no role to play except to vote enthusiastically on the grounds that these Democrats are the “last thing standing” between us and the end of the world. It is a liberalism of the rich, it has failed the middle class, and now it has failed on its own terms of electability. Enough with these comfortable Democrats and their cozy Washington system. Enough with Clintonism and its prideful air of professional-class virtue. Enough!"

Thomas Frank is the author of Listen, Liberal


good find, jhmd
 
Deacfreak07 said:
So you and MDMH are exactly the same, great!

By the way, the spoiled millennial brats rolled the quad Tuesday night. Can't wait for them to grow up and learn better in the real world !
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How, exactly, are MDMH and I exactly the same as far as refusing to reconsider and/or adjust a position that we previously held? I just voted for Trump after twice voting for Obama, and voted for Burr & McCrory after voting against both of them in their previous race. Does MDMH have a similar situation that we could use for comparison?
 
Wrangor said:
The Midwest auto jobs would come back if you broke the unions. The labor force there is incredible for auto construction and repair. They have done it their whole lives and many of them have had it handed down generationally (I know because a good portion of my family lives in Michigan and are auto people).

Think of the paradigm shift if they finally said no to the unions. I think almost immediately you would see the current auto companies reinvest in their properties in the region and the next time a bid came for a new plant you would have experienced people ready to go to work on a level playing field with South Carolina and mississippi.

Don't get me wrong - Mississippi loves the auto plants that are being built here and the jobs and tax money that comes out of that but there is really no reason those plants shouldn't be built in Michigan. The state is just dealing with half the deck.


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MI and other Midwestern states could absolutely go all in on union busting, but it's clearly risky. MI and WI have been reliably blue presidential states for a long time and Trump won both states by small margins. If the GOP believes the NE and West are permanently lost, they need to change the EC map any way.

Barring Trump leaving office or not running again in 2020, Kasich's career is done and likely Walker's too. They could join GOP Governors in MI, IN, and IA in coordinated union busting for the auto industry. Rumors that Reince Priebus may become Trump's Chief of Staff combined with Pence could help make it happen.

Wouid definitely change the EC dynamics, but not without risk. Walker became a conservative folk hero for breaking WI public unions, but was a presidential primary bust. Obama and Biden avoided the Madison protests like the plague, held their convention in a right to work state, and still won WI and MI (Mitt's childhood state/son of an auto CEO) in 2012.
 
bobknightfan said:
How, exactly, are MDMH and I exactly the same as far as refusing to reconsider and/or adjust a position that we previously held? I just voted for Trump after twice voting for Obama, and voted for Burr & McCrory after voting against both of them in their previous race. Does MDMH have a similar situation that we could use for comparison?
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We don't know yet!
 
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