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Trump and the Environment

I think there is an awful lot of hand wringing and fear of what Trump may do. One thing, however, to keep in mind is that Trump has to make literally THOUSANDS of political appointments. And he doesn't have nearly that many qualified political operatives in his rolodex. So you can expect to see a lot of GOP rehashes. Oddly that may be somewhat comforting to some of you Dem types - the notion that by default he'll have to work with the "establishment" and can't really drain the proverbial swamp. He really has no choice.
 
I think there is an awful lot of hand wringing and fear of what Trump may do. One thing, however, to keep in mind is that Trump has to make literally THOUSANDS of political appointments. And he doesn't have nearly that many qualified political operatives in his rolodex. So you can expect to see a lot of GOP rehashes. Oddly that may be somewhat comforting to some of you Dem types - the notion that by default he'll have to work with the "establishment" and can't really drain the proverbial swamp. He really has no choice.
His first few stabs at draining the swamp aren't working too well.

The man promised to eradicate all environmental restrictions on fossil fuel extraction and use. It was a main tenant of his grand plan and dovetails well with what we know he believes about climate change.

We lost the election but if you want to write off my concern about the future of our planet as hand-wringing, you are missing the point. Elect young-earth creationist Mike Pence to the Supreme Court and repeal all the social reforms Obama has made. Go ahead and do it. I'm comfortable in the fact that it won't last long. Those positions are dinosaurs.

Trump has the ability and the apparent desire to set our progress on environmental stewardship back for decades. Megafauna will continue to go extinct and my children will never get to see a polar bear, or a snow leopard, or a panda bear unless they are all cloned. I don't want to live in that world.

I wish the Christians in this country would actually consider their book when voting. It seems to me like it would be a sin to willingly trash the world that god created.
 
I think I've settled on the Conservation Fund as my charity of choice to begin supporting this cause.
 
I think there is an awful lot of hand wringing and fear of what Trump may do. One thing, however, to keep in mind is that Trump has to make literally THOUSANDS of political appointments. And he doesn't have nearly that many qualified political operatives in his rolodex. So you can expect to see a lot of GOP rehashes. Oddly that may be somewhat comforting to some of you Dem types - the notion that by default he'll have to work with the "establishment" and can't really drain the proverbial swamp. He really has no choice.

How is this comforting at all? The Republican establishment is blatantly pro-business and anti-regulation.
 
So I see scientific / engineering solutions could go a couple ways. 1) re-terraform the earth- think the giant CO2 processors in Seaquest or the artificial tree that was engineered that absorbs 10x the carbon of a normal tree. 2) could go the Snowpiercer route where we try to fix the problem and end up creating a massive issue worse than before. I think 1 has some promise as long as we keep our eyes on 2.

that'd be a pretty damn big tree. but i wonder how many of these fictional trees we'd need to counteract this:



for people who deny climate change, the fact that all international shipping companies are planning shipping routes through the arctic (a northwest passage; the fabled trade route that has basically prompted all westward exploration for 500 years) should be enough to convince even the staunchest skeptic.
 
If we're past the tipping point then why not STFU already? Jesus H. Christ. If you're really worried about it, go bug the Chinese about it. They're only getting worse every year with their total disregard for everything environmental, be it pollution or animals that they harvest for some bullshit reason. The other emerging economies in India and Brazil will be right behind them.

The environmental stuff has been co-opted by the lunatics on the left and pubs are a bit too business friendly for my tastes at times Hit polluters with fines, hit willful polluters with enormous fines. up the MPG requirements for autos every 10 years or so, and continue to invest in green technologies, which are so much more efficient now than they were just a few years ago. The problem will fix itself.

And throw this thread into the Lectro thread where it can be a one stop shop.
 
If we're past the tipping point then why not STFU already? Jesus H. Christ. If you're really worried about it, go bug the Chinese about it. They're only getting worse every year with their total disregard for everything environmental, be it pollution or animals that they harvest for some bullshit reason. The other emerging economies in India and Brazil will be right behind them.

The environmental stuff has been co-opted by the lunatics on the left and pubs are a bit too business friendly for my tastes at times Hit polluters with fines, hit willful polluters with enormous fines. up the MPG requirements for autos every 10 years or so, and continue to invest in green technologies, which are so much more efficient now than they were just a few years ago. The problem will fix itself.

And throw this thread into the Lectro thread where it can be a one stop shop.

Parody or real ELC?
 
If we're past the tipping point then why not STFU already? Jesus H. Christ. If you're really worried about it, go bug the Chinese about it. They're only getting worse every year with their total disregard for everything environmental, be it pollution or animals that they harvest for some bullshit reason. The other emerging economies in India and Brazil will be right behind them.

The environmental stuff has been co-opted by the lunatics on the left and pubs are a bit too business friendly for my tastes at times Hit polluters with fines, hit willful polluters with enormous fines. up the MPG requirements for autos every 10 years or so, and continue to invest in green technologies, which are so much more efficient now than they were just a few years ago. The problem will fix itself.

And throw this thread into the Lectro thread where it can be a one stop shop.

As far as the first part, the US has to lead by example if we're going to get China or emerging economies to follow suit.

As far as the second, I agree. But you're basically center left with that position. But Republicans may budge under Trump since they won't be all like "OMG Solyndra!!!!" anytime green tech is mentioned.
 
"Take a last flying look at the last lonely eagle,
he's soaring the length of the land,
shed a tear for the fate of the last lonely eagle,
for you know that he never will land."
 
That's not what ELC was saying, at least I don't think so. Business people aren't going to fine themselves and set MPG requirements themselves. They probably won't invest in green tech themselves either.
 
Businesses won't lead on international agreements. Which is ultimately what's going to drive those businesses to act.
 
That's not what ELC was saying, at least I don't think so. Business people aren't going to fine themselves and set MPG requirements themselves. They probably won't invest in green tech themselves either.

No they won't set mileage standards themselves. The government has to do that, and the government has to enforce some semblance of a standard when it comes to polluters. I think that in spite of the generalizations of those on the left, most on the right agree on that basic truth. The arguments always come about with how much is too much regulation and what rules are needed or unnecessary.

In the end, business responds to consumer demand and the bottom line. Both factors are more favorable for green energy tech now than they ever have been, and that is not going to change under Trump. That is how we lead-- through innovation. We invent shit and the Chinese figure out how to manufacture it cheaply. All this fuss over climate agreements and saving the earth is just bureaucratic brouhaha.
 
No they won't set mileage standards themselves. The government has to do that, and the government has to enforce some semblance of a standard when it comes to polluters. I think that in spite of the generalizations of those on the left, most on the right agree on that basic truth. The arguments always come about with how much is too much regulation and what rules are needed or unnecessary.

In the end, business responds to consumer demand and the bottom line. Both factors are more favorable for green energy tech now than they ever have been, and that is not going to change under Trump. That is how we lead-- through innovation. We invent shit and the Chinese figure out how to manufacture it cheaply. All this fuss over climate agreements and saving the earth is just bureaucratic brouhaha.

You got it all figured out brah but no comment on the crazy artificial tree?
 
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...anging-the-climate-we-re-changing-life-itself

The earth has warmed barely a single degree Celsius, and yet virtually no place on the planet is unaffected by climate change. That’s the conclusion of both a new study published in the journal Science and a popular-science book out this week, The Unnatural World, by David Biello, the science curator at TED and a Scientific American contributing editor.
“This new age is not just climate change,” Biello writes, “it is everything change: the sky, the sea, the land, the rocks, life itself.”

The Science article reviews dozens of field studies and assembles them into a mosaic of ubiquitous change, from the genes of organisms to entire regions. More than 80 percent of the 94 biological and ecological systems surveyed show signs of the changing climate. Led by Brett Scheffers of the University of Florida, a team of 17 scientists trawled academic journals and enumerated observed changes across terrestrial, marine, and freshwater environments. The study’s seven pages are a dense catalog of pervasive, dynamic weirdness that paint a picture of changing ecosystems.

No particular item should strike fear in the hearts of readers but, taken together, the data portray a living world that’s trying to cope. Some highlights: Pink salmon are migrating about two weeks earlier in the summer than they did 40 years ago, spawning in ever-warmer waters and causing the fish’s genome to change. Southern flying squirrels, native to the eastern U.S., are becoming northern flying squirrels, now native to the Pacific Northwest, Canada, and Alaska. Colors—which help determine an animal’s sensitivity to light and consequently its ability to thrive in unfamiliar conditions—are shifting in butterflies, dragonflies, and birds. Some places have new diseases, and old diseases have arrived in new places.
 
If we're past the tipping point then why not STFU already? Jesus H. Christ. If you're really worried about it, go bug the Chinese about it. They're only getting worse every year with their total disregard for everything environmental, be it pollution or animals that they harvest for some bullshit reason. The other emerging economies in India and Brazil will be right behind them.

The environmental stuff has been co-opted by the lunatics on the left and pubs are a bit too business friendly for my tastes at times Hit polluters with fines, hit willful polluters with enormous fines. up the MPG requirements for autos every 10 years or so, and continue to invest in green technologies, which are so much more efficient now than they were just a few years ago. The problem will fix itself.

And throw this thread into the Lectro thread where it can be a one stop shop.

Thanks for your contribution, ELC. Thankfully no one was around to bug us during our brief stint with industrialism.

I like all of the suggestions in your second paragraph but we seem to be poised to go the other way with the Trump administration. Why would he or his cohorts make those changes when they don't see a problem?
 
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...anging-the-climate-we-re-changing-life-itself

The earth has warmed barely a single degree Celsius, and yet virtually no place on the planet is unaffected by climate change. That’s the conclusion of both a new study published in the journal Science and a popular-science book out this week, The Unnatural World, by David Biello, the science curator at TED and a Scientific American contributing editor.
“This new age is not just climate change,” Biello writes, “it is everything change: the sky, the sea, the land, the rocks, life itself.”

The Science article reviews dozens of field studies and assembles them into a mosaic of ubiquitous change, from the genes of organisms to entire regions. More than 80 percent of the 94 biological and ecological systems surveyed show signs of the changing climate. Led by Brett Scheffers of the University of Florida, a team of 17 scientists trawled academic journals and enumerated observed changes across terrestrial, marine, and freshwater environments. The study’s seven pages are a dense catalog of pervasive, dynamic weirdness that paint a picture of changing ecosystems.

No particular item should strike fear in the hearts of readers but, taken together, the data portray a living world that’s trying to cope. Some highlights: Pink salmon are migrating about two weeks earlier in the summer than they did 40 years ago, spawning in ever-warmer waters and causing the fish’s genome to change. Southern flying squirrels, native to the eastern U.S., are becoming northern flying squirrels, now native to the Pacific Northwest, Canada, and Alaska. Colors—which help determine an animal’s sensitivity to light and consequently its ability to thrive in unfamiliar conditions—are shifting in butterflies, dragonflies, and birds. Some places have new diseases, and old diseases have arrived in new places.


Other than the disease part, the rest of this paragraph is not "scary" - it just suggests change in the natural world.

I consider myself pro-environment, but we can't get up in arms because butterflies change colors. That is just evolution. And different species have gone extinct throughout history. Similarly, new species have been and continue to be discovered and catalogued. The environmental movement, if it ever takes off, is going to take off only when you point to direct impacts on humans. I am not saying that is "right," I am just saying it is accurate.
 
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Other than the disease part, the rest of this paragraph is not "scary" - it just suggests change in the natural world.

I consider myself pro-environment, but we can't get up in arms because butterflies change colors. That is just evolution. And different species have gone extinct throughout history. Similarly, new species have been and continue to be discovered and catalogued. The environmental movement, if it ever takes off, is going to take off only when you point to direct impacts on humans. I am not saying that is "right," I am just saying it is accurate.

I cannot get behind most of this post. The changes in the natural world that you seemingly casually dismiss are happening on a time scale never seen before. These changes should be viewed as canaries, especially the wildly rapid rise in species extinction rates exhibited in last ~300 years.

You're right about one thing though, getting support behind the environmental movement requires couching the problems in terms of how do they affect humans, and really individuals, because in the US we seem to be willing to accept huge environmenatal problems in someone else's community as the cost of economic growth, but will not stand for it in our own backyards.
 
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