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Rejecting words and actions which perpetrate, support or encourage white supremacists

What about "charges" of systemic racism and white privilege?

That is where we should have debate. Those issues are a bit more nebulous.

Personally, I am not a big fan of privilege theory. Everybody and everything has pluses and minuses. That said, I would be open to convincing.

Pretty much feel the same about systemic racism but am willing to engage. It can be a very convenient catch-all for a myriad of problems.

Regardless of the validity of those ideas, they are not solutions and can be hindrances to solutions.
 
I will agree that both sides want to win more than they care about the debate, however, PC and calling people racist or some other "ist" is about silencing them.

You don't have to win a debate if you silence the other side.

It is a very effective tactic but is becoming so overplayed that it is loosing some of it's effectiveness.

Elitism is a new vehicle for the right to try their hand at that perception of silencing debate.
 
I never get ugly. I am not the emotional type and I like a good back and forth. That said, I am not going to talk race with a POC unless I already know them well enough that they will not doubt my sincerity.

It is a shame that this issue cannot be debated honestly, but it never will be unless the charges of racism whenever there is disagreement stop. It's just not worth it.

It's interesting that white folks want to define the terms of this discussion, and seem to refuse to participate if those terms are not agreed upon.
 
I also think people are more upset about getting called racist than they are about actual real life racism.

This. Too many of these decisions about racism get shut down by people saying "I'm not a racist." Ok well that doesn't mean you can't do something about the problem.

knowell, what are you afraid of saying for fear of being called a racist?
 
It's interesting that white folks want to define the terms of this discussion, and seem to refuse to participate if those terms are not agreed upon.

Also very true. Seems like they want a safe space to discuss race without being criticized by minorities.

This board is like 99% white and conservatives here don't think it's safe enough.
 
Also very true. Seems like they want a safe space to discuss race without being criticized by minorities.

This board is like 99% white and conservatives here don't think it's safe enough.

It's only that diverse on days when Smoove is around.
 
It's interesting that white folks want to define the terms of this discussion, and seem to refuse to participate if those terms are not agreed upon.

So asking to not be called a racist if you disagree with the prevailing left opinion on race issues is uncalled for.

If you are happy with the state of race relations and with the frankness of discussions on race, then carry on. I withdraw my complaint. As you were.
 
So asking to not be called a racist if you disagree with the prevailing left opinion on race issues is uncalled for.

If you are happy with the state of race relations and with the frankness of discussions on race, then carry on. I withdraw my complaint. As you were.

What "frankness" are you referring to? Nobody here is happy with the state of race relations.

What do you want to say that you think safe spaces don't allow you to say?
 
So asking to not be called a racist if you disagree with the prevailing left opinion on race issues is uncalled for.

If you are happy with the state of race relations and with the frankness of discussions on race, then carry on. I withdraw my complaint. As you were.

You are closing off the possibility that you aren't racist or benefit from racism because of your own self-determination. Makes it hard to proceed with a conversation. You really want a frank conversation about racism, then it's hard to go forward without that possibility.
 
So asking to not be called a racist if you disagree with the prevailing left opinion on race issues is uncalled for.

If you are happy with the state of race relations and with the frankness of discussions on race, then carry on. I withdraw my complaint. As you were.

Avoiding honest debate by claiming you'll be called a racist is uncalled for. That's a cop out.
 
Also very true. Seems like they want a safe space to discuss race without being criticized by minorities.

This board is like 99% white and conservatives here don't think it's safe enough.

Do you believe that employing terms like "racist" to those with differing opinions is on race issues is helpful or harmful for frank discussions?

What you stated above shows me that you are not interested in a real discussion.
 
Do you believe that employing terms like "racist" to those with differing opinions is on race issues is helpful or harmful for frank discussions?

What you stated above shows me that you are not interested in a real discussion.

I believe racism exists. I believe we should be able to have a conversation where that label is required.
 
Avoiding honest debate by claiming you'll be called a racist is uncalled for. That's a cop out.

Except for the fact that peoples lives and livelihoods can and are routinely destroyed by charges of racism. Couple that with the propensity of people from certain political persuasions to call others racist at the drop of hat and you have the perfect recipe for silence.

Calling them out for avoiding the discussion while looking for the chance to pounce is a bit disingenuous.
 
Except for the fact that peoples lives and livelihoods can and are routinely destroyed by charges of racism. Couple that with the propensity of people from certain political persuasions to call others racist at the drop of hat and you have the perfect recipe for silence.

Calling them out for avoiding the discussion while looking for the chance to pounce is a bit disingenuous.

You care to share any examples of that?
 
I believe racism exists. I believe we should be able to have a conversation where that label is required.

That's fine. Do you think that using that term liberally enhances the opportunity for frank discussion or diminishes it.
 
That's fine. Do you think that using that term liberally enhances the opportunity for frank discussion or diminishes it.

I think that the word is polarized, and we don't seem to have an agreed upon definition. I could be wrong, but I think a lot of white folks hear "racism" and they think klansman. When I say racism, I'm almost always referring to a systemic problem. I would say someone who participates in and/or ignores the problem is behaving as a racist.
 
Except for the fact that peoples lives and livelihoods can and are routinely destroyed by charges of racism. Couple that with the propensity of people from certain political persuasions to call others racist at the drop of hat and you have the perfect recipe for silence.

Calling them out for avoiding the discussion while looking for the chance to pounce is a bit disingenuous.

The number of lives being "routinely destroyed by charges of racism" is just comically low compared to the amount of lives actually destroyed BY racism in the past and now.

We've spent the past page discussing how to discuss racism instead of actually talking about it. Absurd.

What do you want to talk about. This is a safe space. Nobody will call you a racist.
 
The number of lives being "routinely destroyed by charges of racism" is just comically low compared to the amount of lives actually destroyed BY racism in the past and now.

We've spent the past page discussing how to discuss racism instead of actually talking about it. Absurd.

What do you want to talk about. This is a safe space. Nobody will call you a racist.

Why doesn't Trump just put the onus on white people to report other white people committing acts of racism? #WhitesReportStuff
 
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