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UNC-G Basketball Game Thread

RJKarl said:
Except he has been very mediocre in his five years at UNC-G. he is under .500 in conference games in spite taking over early season when he went 10-5.
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. RJ, out of curiosity, how many UNCG games have you watched in person or on TV the last few years? Are you aware of the flood of injuries and loss of players the last 3 years. You can judge Wes on this seasons record. He finally has his players in there and healthy. Looking forward to you showing up in April and correcting your comments. We will see.


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donaldross said:
I am not being really critical of the Manning hire. I'm fine with it because he's fairly young. The problem with Manning is 2 or 3 decent years and he's gone. You can't get to a 1000 wins with a Coach if you hire him in his 50s. Look at the ages and experience level of Knight, K, & Dean when they were hired. The other reason I wanted to hire Wes (& Wojo) was to get them while we could blocking them from what all insiders know is likely their eventual trajectories. Wes has more college wins than any 33 year old alive. That will continue. And one day he will be on an ACC sideline. I was hoping we would gamble and it would be us. It seems like the fact that his dad struck it rich and is one of our top 5 most loyal donors (even after we snubbed his son as a player) is being used against him. Why? Firing is never easy anyway. Donating to the school hurts you?? Silly. It's time to recognize the era and make bold moves. We have nothing to lose. Old dudes are lazy, nonrisk takers, that do not rock the boat. That's why nobody smart wants to hire an old lawyer, doctor, or basketball coaches. We have watched Wellman's lazy, conservative, stale, risk averse moves leave us with a decade in the trash bin and a neusue of a basketball stadium around our neck. The only bright spot has been the improvement of the football facilities and we all know that is exclusively the result of Bob McCreary.

Paying all that money to Wellman has been a huge mistake. We could have signed Wes or Kelsey to a long term deal for a fraction of what we pay that guy. And now we would have a coach that could be with us 4 decades instead of an old retread dude whose upside is 5-6 years. I hope we get another shot. In the meantime, maybe Manning can get us better positioned before he heads somewhere else (like Kansas if he does well here)
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Agree with the Wellman part. Most of the rest of this is nonsense.
 
donaldross said:
. RJ, out of curiosity, how many UNCG games have you watched in person or on TV the last few years? Are you aware of the flood of injuries and loss of players the last 3 years. You can judge Wes on this seasons record. He finally has his players in there and healthy. Looking forward to you showing up in April and correcting your comments. We will see.


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DR, I haven't seen UNC-G much at all. but he's been there five years not three. Maybe if he has a couple of good years and makes a mini-run in The Dance. I hope he does really well, but you don't get our job with his current resume.

Also he doesn't really have a name or the contacts to hit the ground running. There's no way Chill will take #2 behind Wes. What name assistant will he get?

Before I say what I am going to do a hypothetical, let me say that I expect Danny to be here for a while. But if Danny is gone, we either have to spend a buttload of money on a name coach or give the job to Chill. We won't have 2-3 years let Wes grow into the position before the program is basically dead in the new ACC.

Again, if Danny gets us to The Dance next year, I fully expect him to be here for at least a decade more or longer.

we are completely on the same page about Wellman being a huge problem. I also believe Hatch needs to go.

DR for President of Wake Forest!!!
 
Deac83 said:
Wow, so much here.

Have to start with 'hide your keys', shocked this has not come up yet. :)

I think for DM to ever go back to Kansas or another big 5 team, he's going to have have us near the top of the ACC for a couple of years. Nothing to this point would have him on another big 5 list. I think people are more worried he'll muddle through in the middle of the pack as his ceiling which would not be bad enough to get fired and not good enough to be stolen.

Trying to remember the assistant we (the board) were so hot on when Odom's contract was not renewed? Pelphrey? He certainly didn't wind up lighting it up.

I do find it interesting the Shaka took Texas to the NCAA's last year with about the same record and result as Barnes had the year before and is not off to a 5-4 start with a blow out loss at NW. If Manning was 5-4 we'd be calling for his head. I'm guessing Shaka was not left with nothing and has yet to work his VCU magic there. I think the point is that even if we had gotten Shaka would he have been able to turn it around any faster than our current pace.
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I was going to when I finished the thread had no one previously done so. In this case I think he hid his own keys, and forgot where he put them.
 
Got to hand it DR for "standing by his man."

Wes Miller may have a future as a great coach, or he may not, but there is simply no objective criteria that qualifies him for an ACC level job at this point or at any time when WF was considering coaching candidates.

As has been mentioned on this thread, Miller is now in his 6th year as a head coach at UNCG, and he has never had a winning record in the low level SoCon. The ridiculously hard super-power OOC schedule claim is simply not accurate. Last year, was Miller's best year when UNCG went 15-19 (impressive - not), but 3 of their 15 wins were against non-D-1 teams (Chowan, Greensboro College and Belmont Abbey). Last year (Miller's 6th year at UNCG), Miller pulled the sad trifecta of losing to all 3 of the similarly situated weakling small D-1 schools closest to UNCG:

- NC A&T 77 UNCG 68 (well, Miller kept it to within double digits against the #339 team in the country - kudos)
- High Point 90 UNCG 72 (ouch; losing to another annoying former UNC player Scott Cherry; WF would not consider him either); btw, Scott Cherry and High Point beat UNCG again this year. So, Miller may not even be the best no talent former UNC guard coach in the greater Triad area.
- Elon 79-69 (Elon's Matt Matheny has at least led that program to a couple of winning seasons during his tenure, and Elon was invited to move up from the SoCon to the CAA; so, he is coaching at a higher level than Miller; btw, although better qualified than Miller, Matheny would not rate as ACC level candidate either)


To further debunk the Superpower OOC claim to excuse Miller's craptastic won/loss record, UNCG has played at least 2 non-D1 schools each year since 2013 (apparently UNCG can't find easy enough OOC wins among the 351 D1 teams). This year, UNCG's 7-3 record includes wins over Mars Hill and Belmont Abbey (they must be a rival; credit to Miller for owning the BA Crusaders). For the 2016-7 season, UNCG's OOC schedule is rated #329 out of 351 - about as bad as it gets. After losing to WF, UNCG will take on Southern Wesleyan (is there a Northern Wesleyan? another non-D1 school) next, and of UNCG's 13 OOC games, only 1 is against a top 50 D1 team: the opener against UVA (who throttled UNCG by 25). Despite claiming bunny wins over the Belmont Abbey and Southern Wesleyan, Miller has failed 5 years in a row to get UNCG over the winning record hump. The UNCG schedule has not been tough.

Also, Miller's limp record at UNCG can't be explained by playing in a super-competitive conference. The SoCon is a low-tier D-1 conference that has lost it's best programs to other leagues (Davidson to the A-10, College Charleston and Elon to the CAA and Georgia Southern to the Sun Belt, while adding the worst of the worst - VMI). Even had Miller won at the SoCon level, he would need to get mid-major job, and win there before getting consideration for an ACC level job.

Not only was Miller not qualified for the WF job in 2010 or 2014, there's nothing to indicate that even regional schools in mid-major conferences with openings in the last two years (VCU, George Mason, UNCW, College Charleston, Charlotte) considered Miller as a candidate, but WF should have hired a guy who can't get an interview at UNC-W? Have absolutely no desire to defend Ron Wellman, but to the extent that anyone suggested Miller to Wellman in either 2010 and 2014, Wellman properly dismissed that possibility out of hand. Whatever remained of the WF fanbase after the [] disaster would've fled after WF hired a Miller coming off an epic 14-18 year in the SoCon.

Simply stated, Miller has done nothing to prove that he can administer, recruit or coach on the highest level of D1 basketball, and that's why not a single top 150 program has given him the time of day while Miller has toiled at UNCG. Like everyone else, Miller needs to earn it (daddy can't buy him an ACC head coaching job), by winning games at the SoCon level, and then again at the mid-major level. Until he does, touting Miller for the WF basketball job is ridiculous.
 
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Perhaps when DR typed "Wes Miller" he meant "Pat Kelsey."
 
donaldross said:
Yea, probably. They stopped teaching spelling in the 70s when those now broke ass old doctors who all signed stupid contracts & talk into those little hand held machines and then prescribe poison like Xarelto & Pradaxa were going through school. You know, the ones who went to medical school before modern medicine that you sit for hours to meet with so they can then tell you about what they remember from their anatomy class 30 years ago before taking a nap. Ron Wellman knows how to spell probably. He's old and went to some directional school in Illinois or Ohio or some such before the internet was invented and has been sitting around laughing while we moron donors who actually attended a decent school have been paying him hundreds of thousands of dollars for a few decades to treat us like we know nothing about sports and has hired 1 or 2 coaches in 20 different sports who actually won anything. He probably has a lot of time to focus on spelling. Ask him.
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Did someone take over the DR persona as a parody? He seems a lot less smart than he used it. He must be a personal friend with Wes, that is the only reasonable explanation for this position. It actually would have been a bolder move before Miller established the last 5 years of record at UNCG - then it would have been a flyer on someone you thought had potential. Now he has shown little in 5+ years at UNCG.
 
Pilchard -- Nice analysis though wrong in a couple places (below). But business decisions in the real world are not just made on record and past results, they are made on potential, otherwise we would all be buying Warren Buffett property. This isn't about giving the job to the one who has accomplished the most on paper. This is not grading for high school alegbra. Otherwise, Hillary would be President. It is about giving the job to the one who will accomplish the most. That's Wes in my opinion -- which I am entitled to. I get to implement my opinion in all of my businesses. Luckily, Ron Wellman doesn't or I'd be broke. As for Wake Forest, Ron gets to decide. But I get to come up here and say what I would do. That's what I did--back in 2010, 2014, and now. What frustrated me above was when a few said I didn't say it. So I just need to make a scene once again so that there will be no doubt what my position is going forward.

If Wes died tomorrow, I would beg Pat Kelsey to come back. If there are young hustlers out there who may stay loyal to us, that's what we need. Hopefully, that will be Manning and he will work out. If not, we need to go young.

As for UNCG, they actually had a winning record (and won the division championship) in 2012 (the year ending in spring '12) from the time Wes took over (despite road games at Duke and Miami after Wes took over in mid-December). In 2013 they played VT, Rutgers, Wake, and NC State. In 2014 they played NC, Rutgers, WF, VT, and NC State. Those are all just pretty much unwinnable for UNCG. Recognizing the problem, they gave him some air for 2015 and softened up the schedule. Sadly for him, his 3 best players went down with injuries. He has everybody back now and by all accounts should have a very good season, as we saw on Friday night when they outplayed and outcoached us.
 
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DR baited Pilch into posting 734 words breaking down Wes Miller's career. I hope he got a paralegal to do that.
 
Watching dr try to defend Wes is just sad at this point. If he was as great a coach as you claim then he'd be winning in the god awful conference he coaches in, he's not.
 
donaldross said:
As for UNCG, they actually had a winning record (and won the division championship) in 2012 (the year ending in spring '12) from the time Wes took over (despite road games at Duke and Miami after Wes took over in mid-December). In 2013 they played VT, Rutgers, Wake, and NC State. In 2014 they played NC, Rutgers, WF, VT, and NC State. Those are all just pretty much unwinnable for UNCG. Recognizing the problem, they gave him some air for 2015 and softened up the schedule. Sadly for him, his 3 best players went down with injuries. He has everybody back now and by all accounts should have a very good season, as we saw on Friday night when they outplayed and outcoached us.
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In the 2011-2012 season (Wes Miller's first at UNCG), they did win their division with a 10-8 conference record, but their overall record as 13-19. That is a losing season (the 3 best teams in the conference were in the other division). Also, you must be kidding about listing playing WF, Rutgers, and VT as tough games in 2013. That year:

WF went 13-18 11th out of 13 in the ACC #137 KP (the coach made it a habit of losing to lower tier programs)
VT went 13-19 DFL in the ACC #169 KP
Rutgers went 15-16 13th out of 16 in the Big East #107 KP (and they were coached by madman Mike Rice)

In 2014, VT and WF were two of three worst teams in the ACC (WF finished 13 out 15 in the ACC #118 KP; VT DFL again #174); Rutgers went 5-13 during their one season in the American Athletic Conference. Not making a great case for Miller if those were unwinnable games.
 
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donaldross said:
Pilchard -- Nice analysis though wrong in a couple places (below). But business decisions in the real world are not just made on record and past results, they are made on potential, otherwise we would all be buying Warren Buffett property. This isn't about giving the job to the one who has accomplished the most on paper. This is not grading for high school alegbra. Otherwise, Hillary would be President. It is about giving the job to the one who will accomplish the most. That's Wes in my opinion -- which I am entitled to. I get to implement my opinion in all of my businesses. Luckily, Ron Wellman doesn't or I'd be broke. As for Wake Forest, Ron gets to decide. But I get to come up here and say what I would do. That's what I did--back in 2010, 2014, and now. What frustrated me above was when a few said I didn't say it. So I just need to make a scene once again so that there will be no doubt what my position is going forward.

If Wes died tomorrow, I would beg Pat Kelsey to come back. If there are young hustlers out there who may stay loyal to us, that's what we need. Hopefully, that will be Manning and he will work out. If not, we need to go young.

As for UNCG, they actually had a winning record (and won the division championship) in 2012 (the year ending in spring '12) from the time Wes took over (despite road games at Duke and Miami after Wes took over in mid-December). In 2013 they played VT, Rutgers, Wake, and NC State. In 2014 they played NC, Rutgers, WF, VT, and NC State. Those are all just pretty much unwinnable for UNCG. Recognizing the problem, they gave him some air for 2015 and softened up the schedule. Sadly for him, his 3 best players went down with injuries. He has everybody back now and by all accounts should have a very good season, as we saw on Friday night when they outplayed and outcoached us.
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In 2014, Rutgers lost to Drexel, William and Mary, and Fairleigh Dickinson. In 2013 they lost to Saint Peter's, so I don't see how Rutgers was an unwinnable game for them. In fact, Rutgers is just the type of power conference opponent that UNC-G should have a decent shot at knocking off. If you think Miller is a great coach and we should've hired him great, but you've got to admit there is nothing on his resume that warrants a school like Wake to look at him. Maybe he builds a resume for that type of consideration in the future, but he sure hasn't done it as of yet.
 
Is DR the kind of lawyer who actually goes to court and makes arguments ? You know, a litigator, a trial lawyer ? Because if he is, I want to know when he goes on, because I could use a good laugh. Also, is it poor form to bet on lawyers in the courtroom ? Because I want to put some serious cash on the other guy.
 
Can DR just say why he loves Wes so much and not give the BS "I think he's going to be a good coach" because he's had 5 years to do it and hasn't in a bush league conference so we can just stop this stupid conversation? Dude has to be friends with his dad or something after the "I've though he should be Wake's next coach since he was 14" line.
 
Biff, how about this, EVERY TIME DR takes a case, I'll take his side and you can take the opposition. Let's have a series of bets.

Sight unseen and case unseen, I'll take Dr in EVERY case.

Make no mistake about it, if I have case in a state where's he's admitted to the bar, he's the first call I make.
 
RJKarl said:
Biff, how about this, EVERY TIME DR takes a case, I'll take his side and you can take the opposition. Let's have a series of bets.

Sight unseen and case unseen, I'll take Dr in EVERY case.

Make no mistake about it, if I have case in a state where's he's admitted to the bar, he's the first call I make.
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You're going to call a personal injury lawyer regardless of the details of the case ? Hopefully you're calling for a referral.
 
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