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Official Russian Election Interference Thread

There's a non-zero chance the House would vote for Pence.

No dude. You're just wrong. I would bet every penny in my bank account against this.

Republicans have already won by getting Trump in office. Members of Congress, especially in the House, have been unwilling to speak out against the crazy stuff he's already done. They are not going to risk their own electoral futures by overriding a president who had the overwhelming support of their base. Plus if they put Trump in, they would own him. He'd pretty much have to go along with their legislative agenda.

What would be in it for them to put Pence in over Trump? (doubtful Pence would take it either)
 
Is it really that next level? I don't believe Trump's campaign had any contact with Russia during the campaign because:

1. That would be Treason and no one on Trump's team except Trump strikes me as that brazen.
2. I don't think they are disciplined enough to get away with it.

OTOH, nothing would surprise me any more at this point. Trump doesn't seem to care about other bright line rules so why should we assume that he would never go this far.

It would surprise me a great deal if someone in the Trump campaign committed Treason. Yes. That would surprise me.
 
No dude. You're just wrong. I would bet every penny in my bank account against this.

Republicans have already won by getting Trump in office. Members of Congress, especially in the House, have been unwilling to speak out against the crazy stuff he's already done. They are not going to risk their own electoral futures by overriding a president who had the overwhelming support of their base. Plus if they put Trump in, they would own him. He'd pretty much have to go along with their legislative agenda.

What would be in it for them to put Pence in over Trump? (doubtful Pence would take it either)


I disagree. He'd love to go against essentially anyone who isn't Trump.
 
It would surprise me a great deal if someone in the Trump campaign committed Treason. Yes. That would surprise me.

It would not surprise me one bit if someone in the Trump campaign commits Treason. Proving intent instead of naivety and getting a conviction will be the difficult part.
 
Ten members of the Electoral College have signed a letter urging the Director of National Intelligence James Clapper to provide them with classified briefings on Russia’s hacking and cyber involvement in the U.S. elections.

....

"We further emphasize Alexander Hamilton’s assertion in Federalist Paper #68 that a core purpose of the Electoral College was to prevent a 'desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils.' The United States intelligence community has now concluded with 'high confidence' that a foreign power, namely Russia, acted covertly to interfere in the presidential campaign with the intent of promoting Donald Trump’s candidacy," the letter states.

"The Electors require to know from the intelligence community whether there are ongoing investigations into ties between Donald Trump, his campaign or associates, and Russian government interference in the election, the scope of those investigations, how far those investigations may have reached, and who was involved in those investigations," it reads.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/elec...russian-hacking-allegations/story?id=44150943

An effort spearheaded by Pelosi's kid. Yeah, that should go far. Nevermind that these electors don't have the requisite clearances.
 
It would surprise me a great deal if someone in the Trump campaign committed Treason. Yes. That would surprise me.

Why. I don't think Trump is capable of drawing any sort of line to regulate his own behavior, what makes you think he draws such a line for his subordinates.

Trump will be at risk of committing treason on day 1 because of his business interests as they currently stand. I'm not sure what principle of his will stop him from trading US interests for those interests. I'm also not sure who is going to stop him if not himself.
 
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Can we stop fantasizing about Trump not being president? It's so silly. Even if the electors decide to fuck with our entire system of government and send the election to the House, the House is going to vote for Trump. Why wouldn't they? Their constituents voted for Trump and they want to get reelected.

Fuck our entire system of government? That is our system of government. Isn't this why we have an Electoral College in the first place? So that they can protect the people from their own stupidity?
 
OBLIGATORY DISCLAIMER- Trump won the election. He is our President. Hopefully, he will do a good job.


That being said, it is funny to watch fans of the umpteen million investigations into a private email server, the same people who loved to refer to the Clinton Foundation as a "slush fund," get outraged at the possibility of investigations into Russia's influence on this election. Those same people, who were certain countries purchased access to the US Government through the CGI, see no possibility that PEOTUS Trump hiring numerous staff with ties to Russia could be anything negative.

Its also sad to watch Wrangor's descent from principled (lol) Gary Johnson supporter to what I can only assume will be full throated support of Trump within the next 6 months.

Not gonna happen. I have still not offered a lick of support for Trump. I think the closest I have come to being positive is that I am 'trying' to remain optimistic. Don't go down the PH road of assigning opinions to people. I am still just as anti-trump as I was during the campaign. I am personally fine with investigating Russia's influence on this election. I think they did influence the election, and I don't think they were very subtle about it. It was clear they wanted Trump to be elected over Hillary and it is not difficult to see why. Trump is very open to a strong relationship with them, and Hillary wasn't really interested.

Russia used the cards they had to play, and they played them to whatever advantage they felt they could gain in the world. Assuming that there is evidence of Russia hacking then we should take appropriate action against Russia. Will Trump do that? I am not sure, and to be honest I am skeptical that he will (and I am not even sure how that would look to be honest). However I find it very unlikely that Trump or his campaign committed Treason. The private email server was a fact. It was no conjecture. She used it, and she exposed highly sensitive documents to the world. In the end it was exposure on the internet that led to the downfall of her campaign (even though it was through her associates), and that should be a strong lesson to our leadership. We should be highly vigilant about protecting our secrets. That was my problem with the email server in the first place. Hillary was so focused on protecting her political career that she was willing to expose the US government to threat.

But back to Trump - since you called me out. I don't support him. Any optimism I had for his presidency has almost entirely been snuffed out based on his cabinet selections. I would have been VERY happy with a Romney selection for SOS mainly because it would represent a pragmatism that I was praying would exist (but clearly does not at this point). I am pointing out the hypocrisy of the left mainly as sport to avoid facing any reality of a Trump presidency. Don't mistake my disdain for hypocrisy to be anything near support for Trump. He is a terrible choice for presidency and I eagerly await the Democrats proposing a moderate candidate that I can support in 2020. If they present someone who I can trust, with a decently moderate platform, I will almost assuredly vote for him/her.
 
Fuck our entire system of government? That is our system of government. Isn't this why we have an Electoral College in the first place? So that they can protect the people from their own stupidity?

This. Trump hasn't technically won anything yet. The fact that we treat the Electoral College as a mere formality is as good a reason as any for getting rid of it.
 
Not gonna happen. I have still not offered a lick of support for Trump. I think the closest I have come to being positive is that I am 'trying' to remain optimistic. Don't go down the PH road of assigning opinions to people. I am still just as anti-trump as I was during the campaign. I am personally fine with investigating Russia's influence on this election. I think they did influence the election, and I don't think they were very subtle about it. It was clear they wanted Trump to be elected over Hillary and it is not difficult to see why. Trump is very open to a strong relationship with them, and Hillary wasn't really interested.

Russia used the cards they had to play, and they played them to whatever advantage they felt they could gain in the world. Assuming that there is evidence of Russia hacking then we should take appropriate action against Russia. Will Trump do that? I am not sure, and to be honest I am skeptical that he will (and I am not even sure how that would look to be honest). However I find it very unlikely that Trump or his campaign committed Treason. The private email server was a fact. It was no conjecture. She used it, and she exposed highly sensitive documents to the world. In the end it was exposure on the internet that led to the downfall of her campaign (even though it was through her associates), and that should be a strong lesson to our leadership. We should be highly vigilant about protecting our secrets. That was my problem with the email server in the first place. Hillary was so focused on protecting her political career that she was willing to expose the US government to threat.

But back to Trump - since you called me out. I don't support him. Any optimism I had for his presidency has almost entirely been snuffed out based on his cabinet selections. I would have been VERY happy with a Romney selection for SOS mainly because it would represent a pragmatism that I was praying would exist (but clearly does not at this point). I am pointing out the hypocrisy of the left mainly as sport to avoid facing any reality of a Trump presidency. Don't mistake my disdain for hypocrisy to be anything near support for Trump. He is a terrible choice for presidency and I eagerly await the Democrats proposing a moderate candidate that I can support in 2020. If they present someone who I can trust, with a decently moderate platform, I will almost assuredly vote for him/her.

1. Hillary was a moderate candidate.

2. How did we find out that Hillary exposed sensitive information? Was it through an extensive investigation? Imagine that.

3. Are you really going with the "Russia did what they had to do. No harm no foul. That's how the game is played" line of reasoning? Really?
 
1. Hillary was a moderate candidate.

2. How did we find out that Hillary exposed sensitive information? Was it through an extensive investigation? Imagine that.

3. Are you really going with the "Russia did what they had to do. No harm no foul. That's how the game is played" line of reasoning? Really?

I said I think we SHOULD investigate. Re-read my post. Where have I argued differently? I simply said I find it hard to believe that Trump committed treason. Perhaps he did. We should investigate. I thought the recount was a total waste of time (which it proved to be) but if multiple members of congress (especially a bi-partisan effort) believes we should investigate Russia's influence on the election, then I am completely on board. It seems pretty obvious to me that they did, it is simply a matter of figuring out how to punish them appropriately and effectively.

Additionally I never said 'no harm no foul'. I simply said it doesn't shock me that Russia is interested in influencing elections. Everyone is interested in influencing elections. Some nations have the power to do so, and others do not. I am quite certain that we influence elections all the time. So I don't condone it, it is simply not shocking. If we find evidence of Russia influencing ours then we should take appropriate action again them (again - not sure what that would even look like).
 
Guys, please. Can we just support OUR President?

Assuming Russia did influence the election, how does that really reflect on Trump? Assuming he didn't commit Treason. All it proves is that Russia wanted him as president, but that isn't really a reflection on him. It just means that Russia prefers him.
 
I said I think we SHOULD investigate. Re-read my post. Where have I argued differently? I simply said I find it hard to believe that Trump committed treason. Perhaps he did. We should investigate. I thought the recount was a total waste of time (which it proved to be) but if multiple members of congress (especially a bi-partisan effort) believes we should investigate Russia's influence on the election, then I am completely on board. It seems pretty obvious to me that they did, it is simply a matter of figuring out how to punish them appropriately and effectively.

Additionally I never said 'no harm no foul'. I simply said it doesn't shock me that Russia is interested in influencing elections. Everyone is interested in influencing elections. Some nations have the power to do so, and others do not. I am quite certain that we influence elections all the time. So I don't condone it, it is simply not shocking. If we find evidence of Russia influencing ours then we should take appropriate action again them (again - not sure what that would even look like).

We already found the evidence of Russia influencing our election.
 
Assuming Russia did influence the election, how does that really reflect on Trump? Assuming he didn't commit Treason. All it proves is that Russia wanted him as president, but that isn't really a reflection on him. It just means that Russia prefers him.

I think that reflects a lot on Trump. I wish there had been more discussion during the campaign about why Putin thought Trump was overwhelmingly better for Russia's interests, many of which do not align with or are antithetical to American interests.
 
We already found the evidence of Russia influencing our election.

Because Trump won? I recall a ton of public support among government officials worldwide for HRC, either via outright endorsement or Trump-bashing, and yet we aren't crying about their influence in the election. I wonder why?

Again, unless there is evidence of vote-rigging, this is a total non-story. The fake news element of this is demonstrable bullshit as that stuff cuts both ways. I saw a ton of non-vetted, bogus stories about Trump on my FB feed in the lead-up to the election.

As near as I can tell, Trump's biggest thing with the Russians is the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" adage. He wants to bomb the shit out of ISIS with them, basically. Our approach with Assad has kept us from uniting in that regard. It is not the end of the world to second-guess the efficiency of that strategy.

His finances are another story and he needs to be more transparent in that regard.
 
Assuming Russia did influence the election, how does that really reflect on Trump? Assuming he didn't commit Treason. All it proves is that Russia wanted him as president, but that isn't really a reflection on him. It just means that Russia prefers him.

This is a guy who understands what it means to #SupportOURPresident ! They key phrase to keep in mind over the next 8 years is "Why it matter?"
 
I said I think we SHOULD investigate. Re-read my post. Where have I argued differently? I simply said I find it hard to believe that Trump committed treason. Perhaps he did. We should investigate. I thought the recount was a total waste of time (which it proved to be) but if multiple members of congress (especially a bi-partisan effort) believes we should investigate Russia's influence on the election, then I am completely on board. It seems pretty obvious to me that they did, it is simply a matter of figuring out how to punish them appropriately and effectively.

Additionally I never said 'no harm no foul'. I simply said it doesn't shock me that Russia is interested in influencing elections. Everyone is interested in influencing elections. Some nations have the power to do so, and others do not. I am quite certain that we influence elections all the time. So I don't condone it, it is simply not shocking. If we find evidence of Russia influencing ours then we should take appropriate action again them (again - not sure what that would even look like).

No other nation has ever done anything like Russia did.

Now add to that Putin's go to guy for political consulting outside of Russia was Trump's Chief of Staff and made over $10M in cash payments from Putin's political arm.

Add to that one of Trump's top aides was in contact with the Kremlin negotiating how to life the sanctions that are crushing the Russian economy.

Add to that, Trump's National Security Advisor stayed at Putin's home and appeared on Putin's network lauding that network saying the new Pravda was the same as US news networks.

Add to that, Trump's SOS nominee has received Putin's "Order of Friendship" and personally enriched Putin by billions of dollars and whose company has made a HALF A TRILLION deal to enrich and employ other Russians for decades to come.

These are just what we know as indisputable facts. What don't we know?

Even if we assume the above is 100% of Trump's ties to Putin, he is absolutely and totally compromised by an expansionist dictator.
 
The problem is Trump wants to apply his selfishness to how the United States operates. Many people in this country (despite their miserable lives) believe they are better than others and blessed by God simply for being American. Sure you can believe this but to then apply that thinking globally is the opposite of what America has fought for through out the world. Sure a lot of time the easiest solution is to do nothing, or to look at things on the surface and say sure that's easy to do. For example aligning with Russia and Assad, where we don't do it because we care about the innocent, we care about collateral, and people aren't just objects in the way of victory. Russia operates with that mentality, and trump like that because it's easy. Just look at the UN report today about Assad and his death squads, swell person to align with. Russia doesn't care, we should.
 
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