• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Official Russian Election Interference Thread

I am honestly quite torn by this mess. I don't think that a better relationship with Russia is a bad thing. At this point I think that teaming up with Russia to end the awfulness in Syria (and the ME at large) would be a net positive for everyone. But Putin...geez man he is the wrong guy to team up with.

The thought that the KGB manipulated our election is loathsome and dangerous. This is America and that kind of election interference doesn't/should not happen to us. We are not a banana republic in the 1950s, we are the leaders of the free world and if our elections can be manipulate so easily that is a bad thing for humanity.

I also think that the EC is a bullshit system and I'd love to see it come crashing down. Trump winning despite losing the popular vote by 2.7 million would usually be the kind of thing to hasten the demise of the EC but in this case, the EC going "rogue" and refusing to elect Trump would probably bring about its demise even faster. But I can't imagine how the Trump supported in Rural America would respond to that; they have a lot of guns remember. Probably the best thing here is for the EC to go rogue and then have congress elect Trump anyway. That way we embarrass the EC, but avoid an actual civil war.
 
Electors going rogue wouldn't change the electoral college. If there was any change, it would be to remove the actual human electors from the system and just move to a straight votes per state for president system
 
Last edited:
bird, it's not about better relations with Russia. It's about Putin's barbarism and control of our decision-making. He owns multiple people in Trump's inner-circle.

What's worse is he's shown the rest of the world how to punk Trump. All you have to is compliment him and he'll give you whatever you want. Plus the world is learning that neither

Trump nor his team does any homework. He makes the US an easy mark for any country.
 
Fuck our entire system of government? That is our system of government. Isn't this why we have an Electoral College in the first place? So that they can protect the people from their own stupidity?

No, as has been discussed a number of times on here, we have an Electoral College so that the slave states could get more of a say in electing the president relative to their voting population.

And yes, while the electors may be constitutionally free to vote their conscience, we all know that that's not the system that we've decided on as a country. It would upend popular faith in our government.
 
No, as has been discussed a number of times on here, we have an Electoral College so that the slave states could get more of a say in electing the president relative to their voting population.

And yes, while the electors may be constitutionally free to vote their conscience, we all know that that's not the system that we've decided on as a country. It would upend popular faith in our government.

Yes, I know that is the actual reason but we are taught in 8th grade that the EC is there as a last line of defense, not a slave state appeasement. Plus, that is not the reason Hamilton offered. Any way you look at the EC is a dumb system.
 
The eventuality (probably not even in your grandkids lifetimes) is that countries will have little no meaning. Their importance has greatly lessened for everyday people over the past fifty years and in ways few saw coming.
 
You do realize that Russia and Iran aren't exactly adversarial, right? But really, why it matter?

My point is that it doesn't matter who the nation is. China, Russia, Iran, France.... they all have preferences. Their preference is inconsequential. If France released information on trump to get Hillary elected then the issue is with France not Hillary unless she participated in an illegal act.

If Russia hacked voting machines then This is an EC issue. But that doesn't seem to be the case. They allegedly hacked personal emails and released them. It is a grave concern for our country that Russia would do that but it isn't Trumps fault, he just happened to benefit when Hillary and the DNC were exposed for who they were.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You don't think it's relevant that Russia so strongly believes a Trump Presidency will be in Russia's best interests that they hacked at least one of the two major US parties, timed the leaking of the DNC hacks to impact the US election and orchestrated fake news to overstate the significance of the hacked emails?

Do you think America's interests are aligned with Putin's?

I don't want to overstate the Russian threat. I think even the Russians would agree that the biggest threats to American interests are internal. But I'd certainly rate Russia's ability to pursue their own interests at American expense than any actor in the Middle East (or perhaps all such actors combined).

I think it is very concerning. Still trying to figure out how it is Trumps fault that Russia potentially hacked the DNC. If it isn't Trumps fault then we should investigate thoroughly and evaluate how he responds to the facts that are uncovered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Yes, I know that is the actual reason but we are taught in 8th grade that the EC is there as a last line of defense, not a slave state appeasement. Plus, that is not the reason Hamilton offered. Any way you look at the EC is a dumb system.

You're missing the point. Forget what happened in 8th grade, can you imagine how the country would react if the electors went against the voters? It would be a disaster. It's not worth it.
 
I think it is very concerning. Still trying to figure out how it is Trumps fault that Russia potentially hacked the DNC. If it isn't Trumps fault then we should investigate thoroughly and evaluate how he responds to the facts that are uncovered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well he did basically ask them to. See: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/us/politics/donald-trump-russia-clinton-emails.html?_r=0

We can argue about whether they would have done it anyway, but Trump's not exactly coming at this with clean hands.
 
You're missing the point. Forget what happened in 8th grade, can you imagine how the country would react if the electors went against the voters? It would be a disaster. It's not worth it.

Did you read my comments about rural America and all their guns?
 
The thought that the KGB manipulated our election is loathsome and dangerous. This is America and that kind of election interference doesn't/should not happen to us. We are not a banana republic in the 1950s, we are the leaders of the free world and if our elections can be manipulate so easily that is a bad thing for humanity.

I wonder how many citizens of foreign countries have thought the same thing about us getting involved in and/or manipulating their elections or outright toppling their governments?


15355603_10105033409423993_8842876163906141253_n.jpg
 
Ok so we're on the same page that electors going rogue would be a bad idea? Then why are you arguing with me?

Because I like arguing...?

You said that the EC going rogue would completely fuck our system of government. But that isn't true, that is exactly the system of government that we have. The EC has the power to do that. The fucking will happen when Trump supporters revolt against the outcome. But the EC would just be using the powers ascribed to them via the Constitution, so the revolt would be against the system of Govt. I personally see the best path as the EC going rogue and then Congress, in order to avoid a civil war, electing trump anyway. That way we expose the EC for the farce that it is and we don't have an armed conflict.
 
Ok so we're on the same page that electors going rogue would be a bad idea? Then why are you arguing with me?

I wouldn't mind electors going rogue in dozens of states. That's the only way to get rid of the inane process.
 
Because I like arguing...?

You said that the EC going rogue would completely fuck our system of government. But that isn't true, that is exactly the system of government that we have. The EC has the power to do that. The fucking will happen when Trump supporters revolt against the outcome. But the EC would just be using the powers ascribed to them via the Constitution, so the revolt would be against the system of Govt. I personally see the best path as the EC going rogue and then Congress, in order to avoid a civil war, electing trump anyway. That way we expose the EC for the farce that it is and we don't have an armed conflict.

I don't get this argument.

The EC "going rogue" would actually demonstrate that it is not a farce and works as the founders intended. The fact that the EC is essentially a rubber stamp for the popular vote in each state demonstrates it to be an anachronistic compromise around slavery rather than a bulwark of democracy.
 
I don't get this argument.

The EC "going rogue" would actually demonstrate that it is not a farce and works as the founders intended. The fact that the EC is essentially a rubber stamp for the popular vote in each state demonstrates it to be an anachronistic compromise around slavery rather than a bulwark of democracy.

Well, sure, I guess my point is that most Americans don't understand how the EC works and it actually doing its job would expose its function to a lot of people. The function is pretty undemocratic and so my expectation is that the movement for changing the nature of EC will gain strength if people see what it is actually there for.
 
Also I don't think the house can simply substitute Pence for Trump unless Pence gets 270 VP votes and Trump doesn't.

House is limited to choosing between top 3 EC vote getters (Trump, Clinton, whoever gets the most #nevertrump votes).

If house can't or refuses to decide then VP-elect is acting president until Congress decides (which in theory could be never).

If no VP candidate gets 270 then senate picks between top 2 vote getters including ties (Pence and Kaine, though Pence probs get 270 even if Trump doesn't).

If neither Senate or House can decide then speaker of the house becomes president.

Ideal scenario would be for "rogue" electors to coalesce around one alternative from the "moderate" wing of the party and hope 9 or so state delegations join with dem states to pick the moderate instead of trump.

FWIW the chances of this happening are essentially zero.
 
Well, sure, I guess my point is that most Americans don't understand how the EC works and it actually doing its job would expose its function to a lot of people. The function is pretty undemocratic and so my expectation is that the movement for changing the nature of EC will gain strength if people see what it is actually there for.

Fair point. Don't think it would bring about change though. Pubs and Dems won't agree whether to hold onto the map part or go straight to popular vote.
 
Back
Top