Good bourbon

discdude said:

Anybody have any thoughts? Can't find it in Pa of course but my buddy said people on offtopic were speaking highly of it. Mostly that it has peat, sweet bourbon notes and the spice of rye all in one bottle. We were both skeptical of this description.

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A buddy of mine is the Brand Ambassador for Balcones and he said that this was his favorite bottle until they came out with a new batch of the Balcones Rumble Cask Strength. Easily their best seller...here's what he texted me:

"We are using 100% golden promise barley in the mash. We also do a super long fermentation, up to nine days. It's aged in a combination of 5 gallon and 60 gallon casks, which have been constructed from extra yard aged wood - 24 - 36 months. We use custom toast and char profiles using American oak, French Oak, and even a small proportion of Slovakian oak. It's easily our best seller."

Sounds interesting enough. I'd probably want to try it before I bought a bottle though.

I'm a fan of the Balcones stuff in general, but I haven't tried that one. I bet my local bar has some, so maybe I'll try it tonight.

But I did get in my Hirsch 25yr rye and Col. EH Taylor rye yesterday. Both are outstanding. The Hirsch is smoother and the age on it is definitely apparent. The Taylor has a bit more burn and the rye is more noticable, though not overpowering. Pricewise the Taylor is definitely more of a value, but the Hirsch is a top class rye IMO.

Headed off to a bourbon tasting featuring Heaven Hill products tonight; will report back upon return.

discdude said:

Anybody have any thoughts? Can't find it in Pa of course but my buddy said people on offtopic were speaking highly of it. Mostly that it has peat, sweet bourbon notes and the spice of rye all in one bottle. We were both skeptical of this description.

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NY Times just had a story about Balcones a week ago.

Balcones Distillery in Waco bested nine others, including storied Scottish names like the Balvenie and the Macallan, in a blind panel of British spirits experts.

It was the first time an American whiskey won the Best in Glass, a five-year-old competition to find the best whiskey released in a given year.

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leftcoastdeac said:

Headed off to a bourbon tasting featuring Heaven Hill products tonight; will report back upon return.

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Had a great time - didn't necessarily learn a lot about bourbon, but learned a great deal about Heaven Hill.

They are one of the largest independent owned distilleries in the country, and the larget distiller of bourbons aged over 10 years.

Learned that Evan Williams opened the first commercial distillery in Kentucky (Evan Williams is one of their labels). Although EW opened the first commercial distillery, it was a preacher by the name Elijah Craig that "discovered" the technique of aging corn whiskey in charred oak barrels; his barrels were charred as the result of a barn fire. He put his whiskey in the barrels and shipped them off. People like the way the barrel smoothed out the whiskey and started requesting whiskey from Bourbon County Kentucky, which became simply "Bourbon."

Heaven Hill basically uses a single mash bill for their bourbons and the labeling largely depends on how long it is aged, according to the rep that was there. The mashbill is 78% corn with a heavy rye component as their master distiller current flavors "full flavored" bourbons.

Heaven Hill has created the first commercially available wheat-whiskey (Bernheims) and have somewhat defined what a wheat whiskey is. They also recently released the Larceny bourbon which is a wheated bourbon very simliar to Maker's Mark. The President of HH is apparently very good friends with the president of MM which was the basis for Larceny. Heaven Hill used more wheat than Maker's to make what they consider a sweeter, slightly smoother wheated bourbon.

Of note about Larceny is the origin of the name. John Fitzgerald was a post-prohibition governement worker in charge of securing (bonding) bourbon store-houses. He had a habit of going into the store houses after hours and stealing bourbon which he sold on the side. The distillers apparently allowed this to go on for a while, but the theft got so bad they ultimately turned Fitzgerald in. If you've bought a bottle of Larceny, you'll notice the name "John E. Fitzgerald" on the side...

The whiskey's we tasted were:

Trybox - unaged corn whiskey, bottled at 124 proof (comes off the still at 138, according to the rep). Pretty smooth, heavy corn taste.
Bernheim Wheat Whiskey - 5 year, 90 proof - wheat based whiskey, very sweet, very smooth
Larceny - 92 proof - wheated whiskey, similar to Makers, but smoother
Evan Williams Single Barrel - 10 years, 86 proof - smooth, flavorful, slightly fruity, nice oak flavor
Rittenhouse Rye - bottled in bond, 100 proof - surprisingly sweet, and VERY smooth for a 100 proof whiskey

Had a great night all in all and will definitely try some of these as a result of the tasting.

leftcoastdeac said:

Of note about Larceny is the origin of the name. John Fitzgerald was a post-prohibition governement worker in charge of securing (bonding) bourbon store-houses. He had a habit of going into the store houses after hours and stealing bourbon which he sold on the side. The distillers apparently allowed this to go on for a while, but the theft got so bad they ultimately turned Fitzgerald in. If you've bought a bottle of Larceny, you'll notice the name "John E. Fitzgerald" on the side...

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Old Fitzgerald used to be such a great name in bourbon. It was one of the main lines of the Stitzel-Weller distillery, which was owned by Julian P. "Pappy" Van Winkle. It was the wheated bourbon in the Old Fitzgerald line that made the real Pappy Van Winkle famous. In a post a few days ago I talked about the DSP number. The DSP number of the now defunct Stitzel-Weller distillery is DSP-KY-16. Old Fitzgerald from this distillery is one of the best whiskeys ever made. When Heaven Hill acquired this name they destroyed this bourbon. It went from being one of the best bourbons ever made to being a bottom shelf variety.

leftcoastdeac said:

Rittenhouse Rye - bottled in bond, 100 proof - surprisingly sweet, and VERY smooth for a 100 proof whiskey.

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Rittenhouse BIB is very good - I have a few bottles in the bunker. It's a rye whiskey, but barely a rye...i think the speculation is that it has about 52% rye when the minimum is 51%. Very bourbony for a rye, but I still think it's very good. Makes a great whiskey and ginger in the summer.

Here's a bottle that I'm waiting for a very special occasion to open. This is true Pappy Van Winkle bourbon. This is from the Stitzel-Weller distillery when Pappy Van Winkle ran it.

Can't even enjoy a measly tasting without Bears and Deacs one-upping it in a big way with some bourbon pron.

In all seriousness, how does one acquire a bottle of something like that? I get the feeling you have quite a few years on some of us which may contribute to some of your knowledge and collection...

leftcoastdeac said:

Can't even enjoy a measly tasting without Bears and Deacs one-upping it in a big way with some bourbon pron.

In all seriousness, how does one acquire a bottle of something like that? I get the feeling you have quite a few years on some of us which may contribute to some of your knowledge and collection...

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Haha I didn't mean to one up at all! I think Larceny is a decent wheated bourbon and I thought that the fourth Parker's Heritage Collection (a 10 year wheated bourbon) was truly outstanding. The PHC shows that Heaven Hill can produce a first rate wheated bourbon so I don't know why they aren't using it as a regular release.

That bottle of Very Old Fitz was bottled twelve years before I was born and I can't wait to give it a try when the time is right!

Bears and Deacs said:

Haha I didn't mean to one up at all! I think Larceny is a decent wheated bourbon and I thought that the fourth Parker's Heritage Collection (a 10 year wheated bourbon) was truly outstanding. The PHC shows that Heaven Hill can produce a first rate wheated bourbon so I don't know why they aren't using it as a regular release.

That bottle of Very Old Fitz was bottled twelve years before I was born and I can't wait to give it a try when the time is right!

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I'm just busting your balls a little bit - I greatly appreciate what you bring to this thread.

How did you get that bottle? Was it a "hand-me-down?" Vintage bourbons fascinate me so I'm curious about the process of how/where to find them.

Bears and Deacs said:

That bottle of Very Old Fitz was bottled twelve years before I was born and I can't wait to give it a try when the time is right!

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So, we're the same age...the only real difference is that I have 1-2 bottles of bourbon in the house at any one time and you have about $15,000+ worth. Where did I go wrong? Was it getting married and having kids?

You know you're a baller when you have bourbon that says "bottled expressly for connoisseurs of fine bourbon" on the bottle.

leftcoastdeac said:

I'm just busting your balls a little bit - I greatly appreciate what you bring to this thread.

How did you get that bottle? Was it a "hand-me-down?" Vintage bourbons fascinate me so I'm curious about the process of how/where to find them.

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It was actually the one and only purchase I've made on eBay (before they shut down a lot of the alcohol sales). It's one that I would have never been able to find on my own so I finally bit the bullet and purchased it.

I have another bottle of Old Fitz BIB DSP-KY-16 (Stitzel-Weller) that was barreled in 1974 and bottled in 1980 for which I traded a Wild Turkey 12yr (bottled in 1997 and has been discontinued). The Wild Turkey is probably worth a little more than the Old Fitz, but it was a great trade for me as there never was any Old Fitz distributed down here in Atlanta.

Drinking some Old Weller Antique tonight. Really hitting the spot. Anyone else pouring?


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UNC friend is down after the game so we are drinking Jefferson Presidential 18.

Its a Canadian whisky kind of night.

WRS said:

UNC friend is down after the game so we are drinking Jefferson Presidential 18.

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Nice choice...what batch?

tsywake said:

Its a Canadian whisky kind of night.

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Hmmmm......I hope it's Whistle Pig!

tsywake said:

Its a Canadian whisky kind of night.

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My issue with Canadian whisky is that they are allowed to add caramel and flavoring, as well as GNS. GNS means grain neutral spirit, which is basically alcohol like Everclear or vodka.

Just think of taking a cheap bourbon and watering it down to 40 proof (this is my guess). Add some Everclear to it, along with caramel coloring and some artificial flavor, then watering the whole mixture down to 80 proof. That's what makes up Canadian whisky.

Some distilleries, like Whistle Pig (and there are others...don't let the way I speak of Canadian whisky in general mislead you) are distilling real whisk(e)y. There just aren't laws in place like there are for bourbon that ensure it's pure.

But be very suspicious of anything that is American blended whiskey (or spirit whiskey). Most of these contain about 20% whiskey and 80% GNS (plus flavoring). It's generally very crappy stuff, even if it is described as "light" and "smooth."

This is bottom shelf stuff I mix with Coke, so its probably full of anything and everything. I grew up drinking moonshine, so I'm used to impurities. Anymore, scotch and Bourbon are the only spirits I drink straight. The rest I mix.