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Betsy DeVos

Plenty of them sucked, too. What did Obama's Education Secretary do to improve education? Not much of anything. The apparent fear is that DeVos is going to drive up charter schools, well wtf happened under Obama's Education Secretary's watch? Pretty much that exact thing.

That has been discussed over the past couple of days. Can't remember exactly where, but I know we hit on it at least yesterday.
 
And what exactly was Obama's leadership experience before he was elected President? Community organizer? He fails even your own definition of what is most important.
Trump meets your definition more than Obama did at the time of their respective elections.

Trump has made it abundantly clear that he's not a good leader with the chaos of the last two weeks. You can be a good leader without having been in significant leadership positions before. Obama was, and it was pretty evident from his time in the Senate and on the campaign trail.
 
Trump has made it abundantly clear that he's not a good leader with the chaos of the last two weeks. You can be a good leader without having been in significant leadership positions before. Obama was, and it was pretty evident from his time in the Senate and on the campaign trail.

Really? What exactly did he lead while in the Senate?
Again, we're talking about actual experience. Not the eye test or the #hothand. If you voted for Obama for President given his lack of actual qualifications at the time of the election, then you can't complain about someone else getting a government position with minimal qualifications at the time of their election/appointment.
 
And what exactly was Obama's leadership experience before he was elected President? Community organizer? He fails even your own definition of what is most important.
Trump meets your definition more than Obama did at the time of their respective elections.

He was the director of the Developing Communities Project and a community organizer from 1985-1988. That's 20 years before he was elected President. Here is what he did after that:

1. Attend Harvard Law School where he was selected as editor of the Harvard Law Review and graduated magna cum laude. He was also the first black President of the HLR (where he led people)
2. Two year position as a Visiting Law and Government Fellow at the University of Chicago Law school while writing a book on race relations (where he taught and led people)
3. Taught constitutional law for 12 years at Chicago Law School where he was a Lecturer and Senior Lecturer (where he taught and led people)
4. While doing this he was also the head of Project Vote (where he headed ten staffers and 700 volunteers, where he led people)
5. Was on multiple other boards where he served on the Board of Directors, and also the founding President of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (where he led people)
6. Illinois State Senator for 8 years, and was the chairman of the state HHS (where he led people).
7. Became a US Senator where he was the only Senate member of the Congressional Black Caucus.
8. Held assignments on the Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works Committee, and a couple after that.

There is your leadership experience. To continue to call Obama a "community organizer" as his only leadership experience is just a disservice to your argument. It would be like defining everybody by their first job out of college without considering what they have done in the 20 years and several jobs after that. It's disingenuous and quite frankly a pathetic argument.
 
Not comparable, you know this. Must be bored at work
 
He was the director of the Developing Communities Project and a community organizer from 1985-1988. That's 20 years before he was elected President. Here is what he did after that:

1. Attend Harvard Law School where he was selected as editor of the Harvard Law Review and graduated magna cum laude. He was also the first black President of the HLR (where he led people)
2. Two year position as a Visiting Law and Government Fellow at the University of Chicago Law school while writing a book on race relations (where he taught and led people)
3. Taught constitutional law for 12 years at Chicago Law School where he was a Lecturer and Senior Lecturer (where he taught and led people)
4. While doing this he was also the head of Project Vote (where he headed ten staffers and 700 volunteers, where he led people)
5. Was on multiple other boards where he served on the Board of Directors, and also the founding President of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (where he led people)
6. Illinois State Senator for 8 years, and was the chairman of the state HHS (where he led people).
7. Became a US Senator where he was the only Senate member of the Congressional Black Caucus.
8. Held assignments on the Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works Committee, and a couple after that.

There is your leadership experience. To continue to call Obama a "community organizer" as his only leadership experience is just a disservice to your argument. It would be like defining everybody by their first job out of college without considering what they have done in the 20 years and several jobs after that. It's disingenuous and quite frankly a pathetic argument.

You know he was just chumming the water hoping to get someone to take the time to post this
 
He was the director of the Developing Communities Project and a community organizer from 1985-1988. That's 20 years before he was elected President. Here is what he did after that:

1. Attend Harvard Law School where he was selected as editor of the Harvard Law Review and graduated magna cum laude. He was also the first black President of the HLR (where he led people - uhh, no)
2. Two year position as a Visiting Law and Government Fellow at the University of Chicago Law school while writing a book on race relations (where he taught and led people - again, no)
3. Taught constitutional law for 12 years at Chicago Law School where he was a Lecturer and Senior Lecturer (where he taught and led people - nope. talking at people is not leading them)
4. While doing this he was also the head of Project Vote (where he headed ten staffers and 700 volunteers, where he led people - finally you got one)
5. Was on multiple other boards where he served on the Board of Directors, and also the founding President of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (where he led people - not really)
6. Illinois State Senator for 8 years, and was the chairman of the state HHS (where he led people - once in a while).
7. Became a US Senator where he was the only Senate member of the Congressional Black Caucus.
8. Held assignments on the Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works Committee, and a couple after that.

There is your leadership experience. To continue to call Obama a "community organizer" as his only leadership experience is just a disservice to your argument. It would be like defining everybody by their first job out of college without considering what they have done in the 20 years and several jobs after that. It's disingenuous and quite frankly a pathetic argument.

Great list. So over the course of 20 years, he led 10 staffers and several hundred volunteers. To do what and to what degree of success, who knows. [By the way, Jeff [name redacted] could literally post that same exact experience (a dozen or so staffers and a few hundred volunteers) in his role as college basketball coach.] And he had some other roles that may or may not have involved some degree of leadership of something. You're right, completely qualified to be President of the most powerful nation on earth.
 
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Really? What exactly did he lead while in the Senate?
Again, we're talking about actual experience. Not the eye test or the #hothand. If you voted for Obama for President given his lack of actual qualifications at the time of the election, then you can't complain about someone else getting a government position with minimal qualifications at the time of their election/appointment.

You are conflating inexperience with lack of qualifications.

President Obama graduated from Columbia with a degree in political science, then he worked in public interest for a few years after undergrad. He graduated from Harvard law magna cum laude, was editor of the Harvard Law Review and worked as a research assistant for a constitutional law scholar. He taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for 12 years. He worked to get unregistered African Americans in Illinois registered to vote and worked at a civil rights firm for 12 years.

He was elected as a state senator for 8 years, and then was elected to the US Senate for 4 years until he ran his campaign for President. By my calculations, he had been in school or working in public service for 10 years, had worked at a private firm and taught constitutional law for roughly 12 years each, and had held public office for 11 years before campaigning for President.

You can say he didn't have the federal experience. But you cannot say Barack Obama was unqualified for running for President.
 
so when hiring someone, do you not really look at previous experience, just what ideas they have to present?
 
He was the director of the Developing Communities Project and a community organizer from 1985-1988. That's 20 years before he was elected President. Here is what he did after that:

1. Attend Harvard Law School where he was selected as editor of the Harvard Law Review and graduated magna cum laude. He was also the first black President of the HLR (where he led people)
2. Two year position as a Visiting Law and Government Fellow at the University of Chicago Law school while writing a book on race relations (where he taught and led people)
3. Taught constitutional law for 12 years at Chicago Law School where he was a Lecturer and Senior Lecturer (where he taught and led people)
4. While doing this he was also the head of Project Vote (where he headed ten staffers and 700 volunteers, where he led people)
5. Was on multiple other boards where he served on the Board of Directors, and also the founding President of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (where he led people)
6. Illinois State Senator for 8 years, and was the chairman of the state HHS (where he led people).
7. Became a US Senator where he was the only Senate member of the Congressional Black Caucus.
8. Held assignments on the Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works Committee, and a couple after that.

There is your leadership experience. To continue to call Obama a "community organizer" as his only leadership experience is just a disservice to your argument. It would be like defining everybody by their first job out of college without considering what they have done in the 20 years and several jobs after that. It's disingenuous and quite frankly a pathetic argument.

Beat me to it. Well done. Better than my list.
 
Ha! What makes one "qualified" to be president in your mind? The most important thing is being intelligent and a good leader, and he clearly was that.

You are conflating inexperience with lack of qualifications.

President Obama graduated from Columbia with a degree in political science, then he worked in public interest for a few years after undergrad. He graduated from Harvard law magna cum laude, was editor of the Harvard Law Review and worked as a research assistant for a constitutional law scholar. He taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for 12 years. He worked to get unregistered African Americans in Illinois registered to vote and worked at a civil rights firm for 12 years.

He was elected as a state senator for 8 years, and then was elected to the US Senate for 4 years until he ran his campaign for President. By my calculations, he had been in school or working in public service for 10 years, had worked at a private firm and taught constitutional law for roughly 12 years each, and had held public office for 11 years before campaigning for President.

You can say he didn't have the federal experience. But you cannot say Barack Obama was unqualified for running for President.

I'm not conflating anything. I'm using your liberal spokeman's own definition. He said that the most important qualification is leadership. His academic credentials (both as a student and teacher) are therefore meaningless as to that qualification (though they would arguably go to his intelligence qualification).
 
I'm not conflating anything. I'm using your liberal spokeman's own definition. He said that the most important qualification is leadership. His academic credentials (both as a student and teacher) are therefore meaningless as to that qualification (though they would arguably go to his intelligence qualification).

I'll direct you to 27's post listing his leadership qualifications (which, incidentally, looks eerily similar to my list), and also ask you: what constitutes leadership qualification in your eyes?
 
It is telling that here we are, almost 400 posts in, and no one has argued the merits of DeVos as a candidate. Yet she is now in charge of United States education.
 
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