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DeacDiggler said:
i'd say to remember that these idiots are generally the 10% crazies who have no chance of engaging in a thoughtful exchange of ideas. There are a LOT more centrist republicans out there with whom people can have a dialogue - they just aren't as in your face. Unfortunately Trump makes that difficult, so it will take him being out of the way before normalcy can return.
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This is just wrong. After the last 4 years of Trump's insane behavior, nearly 50% still voted for him. Have you ever tried talking with a somewhat reasonable person who still supports him? You can't reason with them.
 
I'll rephrase. I mean that 10% is the true crazies. The other 38% is people who have let themselves be sucked in and may someday return to normalcy. I agree that for now they're crazy, but once they no longer have an insane leader and find someone more reasonable, they will return to a place where you can have a conversation. (I'm specifically thinking of many of our parents.)
 
Stolen from a tweet I saw over the weekend, but only 28% of the eligible voting population voted for Trump. I think probably 2/3 of them are "nationalists", which means that around 20-25% of our adult population are true bigots. Which is probably right.
 
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DeacDiggler said:
I'll rephrase. I mean that 10% is the true crazies. The other 38% is people who have let themselves be sucked in and may someday return to normalcy. I agree that for now they're crazy, but once they no longer have an insane leader and find someone more reasonable, they will return to a place where you can have a conversation. (I'm specifically thinking of many of our parents.)
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Here is your regular reminder that Trump has had an unwavering 88-90% among Republicans over the last 4 years. The whole party is pretty comfortable with inept authoritarianism and blatant fascism.
 
DeacDiggler said:
I'll rephrase. I mean that 10% is the true crazies. The other 38% is people who have let themselves be sucked in and may someday return to normalcy. I agree that for now they're crazy, but once they no longer have an insane leader and find someone more reasonable, they will return to a place where you can have a conversation. (I'm specifically thinking of many of our parents.)
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You know a lot of 80 year olds who look on their behavior in their 60s with regret and remorse?
 
LOL....true. I probably put too much faith in humanity.
 
Highland Deac said:
...Democrats need to find some way to win over these people, and stop talking down to them or whatever it is they think that Democrats are doing. I don't deny that Democrats have a real problem in rural and exurban America right now, and that not all Republicans are as militant as these folks, but still, I'm at a loss as to how Democrats could win some of these people over without
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Democrats aren’t “winning over” MAGA rally-goers, and haven’t been asked to. The confusion comes from Democrats lazily assuming that the most hardcore Trumpites are the rural poor, when Trumps actual extreme supporters are the wealthier ones who build the Trump themed monster trucks or fly Trump flags on their yachts in boat parades.

Democrats and liberals are playing a dangerous game removing class and cultural delineations from white America.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Democrats aren’t “winning over” MAGA rally-goers, and haven’t been asked to. The confusion comes from Democrats lazily assuming that the most hardcore Trumpites are the rural poor, when Trumps actual extreme supporters are the wealthier ones who build the Trump themed monster trucks or fly Trump flags on their yachts in boat parades.

Democrats and liberals are playing a dangerous game removing class and cultural delineations from white America.
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I would agree that there are wealthy crazy trumpers, but think they are still likely more rural and less have a college degree than otherwise. Just not poor.
 
It doesn’t take a ton of wealth to waste all your savings and 72 month finance a dorky poser truck or a shitty boat. It’s the choice of a moron.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Democrats aren’t “winning over” MAGA rally-goers, and haven’t been asked to. The confusion comes from Democrats lazily assuming that the most hardcore Trumpites are the rural poor, when Trumps actual extreme supporters are the wealthier ones who build the Trump themed monster trucks or fly Trump flags on their yachts in boat parades.

Democrats and liberals are playing a dangerous game removing class and cultural delineations from white America.
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So what's the plan to win over the rural poor?
 
06deacon said:
It doesn’t take a ton of wealth to waste all your savings and 72 month finance a dorky poser truck or a shitty boat. It’s the choice of a moron.
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The desperation to conflate class and culture is so strong here. Give it up, man.
 
PhDeac said:
So what's the plan to win over the rural poor?
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Promise and ACTUALLY deliver on social programs that improve their life. Government health care, $15/hr minimum wage, free daycare, improved schools and Green Energy jobs could be a start.
 
Idk man it’s the same thing with non trumpers who live above their means with two heavily financed German cars in their driveways.

All I’m saying is that having a stupid trump truck or stupid trump boat isn’t solely indicative of wealth.
 
BillBrasky said:
Promise and ACTUALLY deliver on social programs that improve their life. Government health care, $15/hr minimum wage, free daycare, improved schools and Green Energy jobs could be a start.
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How? They keep electing Republicans who either block this progress at the federal level or stop it from happening in their states.
 
BillBrasky said:
Promise and ACTUALLY deliver on social programs that improve their life. Government health care, $15/hr minimum wage, free daycare, improved schools and Green Energy jobs could be a start.
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So in other words promote achievable policy objectives. I agree
 
PhDeac said:
How? They keep electing Republicans who either block this progress at the federal level or stop it from happening in their states.
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Run better candidates who can articulate these policy goals, and get rid of the Pelosi and Schumers who suck at messaging and would also rather suck off corporate lobbyists than get anything accomplished.
 
PhDeac said:
So what's the plan to win over the rural poor?
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I don’t have an answer for that, I just know that it’s a very bad idea for liberals to encourage or reinforce a common white identity among uneducated white people. You saw the bullshit that Hillary stirred up with her “deplorables” comment, and she wasn’t even wrong. What do you think the political and cultural ramifications are going to be of a college educated liberal culture that just ignorantly tears down uneducated whites non-stop? The Democratic Party literally can’t afford to be bitter and condescending, the geography of our electoralism won’t allow for it. There simply aren’t enough college grads and black people to hold this party up on their own, especially with the skew of our population density.
 
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BillBrasky said:
Run better candidates who can articulate these policy goals, and get rid of the Pelosi and Schumers who suck at messaging and would also rather suck off corporate lobbyists than get anything accomplished.
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In KY, McGrath ran a campaign with repeated messaging about protecting health care and pre-existing conditions. KY is an unhealthy state. They re-elected Mitch by a wide margin.
 
MichDeac25 said:
In KY, McGrath ran a campaign with repeated messaging about protecting health care and pre-existing conditions. KY is an unhealthy state. They re-elected Mitch by a wide margin.
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McGrath was a terrible candidate who appealed more to outside donors than to Kentucky voters. Holding her up as some exemplar of a progressive policy champion is ludicrous.
 
At this point, our only hope is Ky is a vacancy filled by the Dem governor. McConnell's hands look busted, but he will probably burry us all.
 
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