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Thread Derailed Completely

deacvision7 said:
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about in regards to how it all unfolded with North Korea since the "end" of the Korean War. Many, many Presidents and administrations let it get to this point. Many, many Presidents just passed the puck down the line. Obama is one of those Presidents, to be sure. But to put it all on him? Fuck off, that is so misguided. I'll explain why if you really, really want me to....

But I deplore you to stay silent because I guarantee you that I know more about this particular issue than you do. I'm not trying to show my dick, but I know more, I've studied this region nearly religiously.


And with that said, this is the one region that truly has me freaking out -- ask my wife -- I'm terrified, I am truly terrified.


And blaming Obama? You're a damn simpleton. This is such a deeply complicated issue and you just try to boil it down to one President 30 year past the start of the conflict. Utter jackass move, Pimp Rummy. Utter jackass move.
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1. I am shocked you think you know a lot about a subject. Shocked, I tell you.
2. What did Obama do to disrupt NK's program?
3. What did even attempt"?
4. Given where we are now, did "strategic patience" work or no?
 
well, the most recent Radio Lab about the checks on the President's ability to use nuclear weapons is interesting
 
sailordeac said:
Good for you! But you should have noticed that these two have nothing to do with each other. Still, congrats on your reading. Keep up the good work!

You work on what you think is "the real question" and get back to us when you think that you have figured it out.
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You've read Johan Huizinga, of course, and probably Harold Kleinschmidt. But have you read Michel-Rolph Trouillot or Eamon Duffy? That's how I'll really know you're really serious about this discussion.
 
1ndy28.jpg
 
WakeForestRanger said:
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"Nice country you got there South Korea. Be a shame if one of that kook's nukes just happened to slip through."

I didn't see it as bad as Frum did. It was just a guy rambling.
 
jhmd2000 said:
1. I am shocked you think you know a lot about a subject. Shocked, I tell you.
2. What did Obama do to disrupt NK's program?
3. What did even attempt"?
4. Given where we are now, did "strategic patience" work or no?
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1) Cool.
2) Considering that NK achieved having nuclear weapons under George W. Bush's watch, I'm not sure what Obama, or any President, could have done after that to "disrupt" their program at that point without risking grave consequences for South Korea and Japan, as well as the tens of thousands of US soldiers in the region.
3) Surely, you jest with this one... but I'll play along. The Obama administration went though the UN to tighten sanctions on North Korea, used cyber warfare to disrupt NK's missile program, worked with China to heavily reduce the import of NK coal (a huge blow to their economy, and moved anti-ICBM technology to South Korea to help reduce the risk of a nuclear tipped missile reaching far off locations.
4) No. But it is a hell of a lot better than the complete destruction of Seoul and other South Korean cities within miles of the DMZ with thousands of pieces of artillery positioned in the mountains on NK's side of the border.

This is an insanely complicated problem and "just bomb them" is one of the most short-sighted ideas that there could be on the issue. That would sign the death certificates of millions of people and thousands of US troops near the 38th.
 
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deacvision7 said:
2) Considering that NK achieved having nuclear weapons under George W. Bush's watch, I'm not sure what Obama, or any President, could have done after that to "disrupt" their program at that point without risking grave consequences for South Korea and Japan, as well as the tens of thousands of US soldiers in the region.
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And I don't think it is a coincidence that KJU & NK really started to revamp their nuclear program after being labeled in the "axis of evil" and seeing Iraq be invaded and Saddam Hussein killed. What did Iraq not have? Weapons of mass destruction, particularly nuclear weapons -- so it would stand to reason that KJU would have seen that as a reason to get those weapons ASAP to further guarantee him, and his family line, staying in power in the country.

Thoughts?
 
deacvision7 said:
And I don't think it is a coincidence that KJU & NK really started to revamp their nuclear program after being labeled in the "axis of evil" and seeing Iraq be invaded and Saddam Hussein killed. What did Iraq not have? Weapons of mass destruction, particularly nuclear weapons -- so it would stand to reason that KJU would have seen that as a reason to get those weapons ASAP to further guarantee him, and his family line, staying in power in the country.

Thoughts?
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I don't disagree with your thought being reasonable for a rational person. No evidence either of the past 2 leaders of NK are reasonable (or anything other than batshit crazy, for that matter).
 
KJU wasn't irrational. KJI, on the other hand... that mofo is a loose cannon
 
Those guys aren't dumb. The one thing that could upset their cult of personaility gravy train would be some major conflict that forces China/US hand.
 
DeaconSig said:
I don't disagree with your thought being reasonable for a rational person. No evidence either of the past 2 leaders of NK are reasonable (or anything other than batshit crazy, for that matter).
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I haven't seen anything that makes me thing that NK is unhinged right now. If you look at it from their totalitarian perspective, everything they've done to this point is fairly rational.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
strategic patience has lead to exactly zero wars.

just sayin'
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This is true, and I also believe that their system can't last, as the other leftist totalitarian regimes could not either. But China can prop them up because they want the buffer. Over time they will amass more and more dangerous weapons, and they are rather aggressive and could miscalculate and cause a lot more damage because of their growing arsenal and capabilities. No matter what you do, China ends up being key. The Donald is wrong, we can't solve NK without China.

As Richard Nixon told Chairman Mao, "There are no good choices in foreign policy."
 
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