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Muslim ban already having effect

Well I'm going to anyway. My dad and grandparents came here as refugees. They lived the American dream. I've seen firsthand how refugees can contribute to making our country great. We wouldn't be the country we are today without them.

It'd be nice if we could take in everyone who wants to come here, but I think enough damage has been done to the standard of living of native born citizens. Trump will not go far enough in my opinion. Only those who possess skills that are truly in demand should be allowed to immigrate. Probably some other exceptions but it needs to be cut way back.
 
It'd be nice if we could take in everyone who wants to come here, but I think enough damage has been done to the standard of living of native born citizens. Trump will not go far enough in my opinion. Only those who possess skills that are truly in demand should be allowed to immigrate. Probably some other exceptions but it needs to be cut way back.

Honestly fuck this. Immigrants are not hurting the standard of living for "native born citizens." And I love how you throw that around like you did something to earn it. It was pure fortune that you were born in the United States, hardly gives you grounds to lord it over people who weren't.
 
Honestly fuck this. Immigrants are not hurting the standard of living for "native born citizens." And I love how you throw that around like you did something to earn it. It was pure fortune that you were born in the United States, hardly gives you grounds to lord it over people who weren't.

Unlike most of you, who choose to live in a fantasy land where supply and demand is not applicable when it comes to labor, I choose to be honest about the harsh reality. But none of you will ever accept the data I've posted. It's easier to remain in denial. Judging from the behavior of most of you, being a sanctimonious gullible fool must be addictive. It would be great if the billion or so people in the world who want to live here could, provided it didn't destroy the country (it would). It's not about demonizing the vast majority of immigrants who are just looking for a better life. But just because your grandfather was a refugee is no reason for the Uinted States to commit suicide and continue the deleterious immigration policies of previous administrations.
 
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This is true, Bob - at least the 6 mos. ban part. It all stemmed out of finding fingerprints on IEDs in Iraq that were ultimately tied to two refugee immigrants from Iraq who had later settled in Kentucky. The State Department put a ban in place for several months to improve the vetting process.

I think what would be useful is to understand:

a - What is the current vetting process. What questions are asked of refugees.

b - How would that vetting process be changed by this administration.

Because I don't think you will (or legally can) see a permanent ban on refugees from any country. And I'd like to know what is it that the administration believes is flawed in the current vetting process and how do they intend to change it.

Does anyone know the details of vetting of refugees as of a week ago vs. what is expected to change.

I just had a long conversation with my brother-in-law. His view is let the law sort people out once they are here. But when asked whether we should let in people who think it is o.k. to have sex with children he said the vetting process would take care of that. When asked if people who think it is acceptable to abuse spouses should be admitted he punted and talked about vetting again. But neither of us knew how vetting actually works today or how it is proposed to be changed.

And I get that we have an 18 mos. process, etc. But how, in detail, does it work. Specifically, what is asked and not asked? And what is it the current administration thinks has to be changed?
 
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The national conference in my field is in Montreal this summer. There's some concern that students and faculty on the ban list won't be able to come back to the US if they go.

This is unbelievable.
 

Here's one guy's experience - which sounds like it did delve into his personal and political beliefs.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/i-went-through-americas-extreme-vetting-214703

Here's an article that suggests some questions that would get to whether someone might be prone to be a security risk cannot be asked.

http://thefederalist.com/2015/11/23/u-s-officials-cant-ask-syrian-refugees-key-questions/

Just seems like if this whole thing is about how people are vetted we should be able to get detailed information about what is asked today and why the administration thinks it is flawed.
 
Unlike most of you, who choose to live in a fantasy land where supply and demand is not applicable when it comes to labor, I choose to be honest about the harsh reality. But none of you will ever accept the data I've posted. It's easier to remain in denial. Judging from the behavior of most of you, being a sanctimonious gullible fool must be addictive. It would be great if the billion or so people in the world who want to live here could, provided it didn't destroy the country (it would). It's not about demonizing the vast majority of immigrants who are just looking for a better life. But just because your grandfather was a refugee is no reason for the Uinted States to commit suicide and continue the deleterious immigration policies of previous administrations.

People made the same argument about letting Jews into the United States in the 1930s. We turned thousands of them away, and many of them were later killed in the Holocaust. Let's assume that for the sake of argument that letting them in would have "hurt the standard of living for native born citizens." Give me a yes or no: was turning them away the right decision?
 
The national conference in my field is in Montreal this summer. There's some concern that students and faculty on the ban list won't be able to come back to the US if they go.

This is unbelievable.

Makes no sense if someone is already here legally. Order must be really FUBAR if it says you are here legally but can't return if you leave.
 
Here's one guy's experience - which sounds like it did delve into his personal and political beliefs.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/i-went-through-americas-extreme-vetting-214703

Here's an article that suggests some questions that would get to whether someone might be prone to be a security risk cannot be asked.

http://thefederalist.com/2015/11/23/u-s-officials-cant-ask-syrian-refugees-key-questions/

Just seems like if this whole thing is about how people are vetted we should be able to get detailed information about what is asked today and why the administration thinks it is flawed.

Starting with refugees is dumb. Refugees are already vetted more than almost any other immigrants to the United States
 
Seriously screw anyone who supports this. I truly believe I'm one of the more open-minded people out there, and very capable of seeing both sides of an argument (sometimes to a fault). But if you support this in the least, you deserve 100% any title of xenophobe/racist/bigot that was thrust upon you for voting for that piece of shit Cheeto sitting in the Oval Office.
 
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Makes no sense if someone is already here legally. Order must be really FUBAR if it says you are here legally but can't return if you leave.

That's what it did. People with green cards who have houses, cars, families, pets, etc. here, who have been living here legally for years, are not being let in if they happened to be outside the country yesterday.

There's no justification for that. It's completely arbitrary and cruel. Messing with people's lives in an attempt to score political points.
 
That's what it did. People with green cards who have houses, cars, families, pets, etc. here, who have been living here legally for years, are not being let in if they happened to be outside the country yesterday.

There's no justification for that. It's completely arbitrary and cruel. Messing with people's lives in an attempt to score political points.

Exactly.
 
The ACLU got a stay to temporarily stop Trump's EO.
 
People made the same argument about letting Jews into the United States in the 1930s. We turned thousands of them away, and many of them were later killed in the Holocaust. Let's assume that for the sake of argument that letting them in would have "hurt the standard of living for native born citizens." Give me a yes or no: was turning them away the right decision?

BSF4L's trolling on this topic is somewhere between disgusting and pathetic. Millions of my people, among other people, could've been saved and were instead turned away to satiate the political appetites of "native" Americans (who were only native insofar as they immigrated a century or two prior).
 
The reason why the order was so fucked up is because like all the other EO the agencies tasked with implementing them were not consulted it. Additionally the original plan as interpreted by those in charge was green card holders would be exempt. This was overruled by Miller and Bannon.
 
That's what it did. People with green cards who have houses, cars, families, pets, etc. here, who have been living here legally for years, are not being let in if they happened to be outside the country yesterday.

There's no justification for that. It's completely arbitrary and cruel. Messing with people's lives in an attempt to score political points.

Well, that is also going to score negative points too. If someone has a Green Card they are already here legally. So either the order is FUBAR or it is not being implemented right.
 
Well, that is also going to score negative points too. If someone has a Green Card they are already here legally. So either the order is FUBAR or it is not being implemented right.

There is a lot of FUBAR going on these days.
 
I'm all for keeping our country safe including proper vetting of every person who wants to immigrate to the US. But this is fucking stupid and will cost us in the long run. We spend billions on defense and the odds of being killed by a terrorist are higher (less likely) than winning the lottery. Bunch of fucking snowflakes in our country now.
 
Glad we've entered the territory of attempted insulation from criticism because Saudi Arabia is just as intolerant.
 
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