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Middle East: Saudis Murder & Dismember Washington Post Contributor

Deacon923 said:
Yeah, I can't get on board with blaming the shootdown on Trump. Iran's leaders should have put their airports, airlines, and air defense systems on an alert footing and made damn sure this didn't happen while they were firing missiles at our bases. While this event is part of the overall cycle of escalation, it's Iran's responsibility to conduct their retaliation and associated air defense operations without shooting down civilians in their own airspace. Remember when the US Navy shot down the Iranian airliner in the 80s? You can't blame that on the (then) Ayatollah, even though it was his escalation of tensions in the Gulf that led to our ship being on high alert. We apologized for that, and Iran should take responsibility for this event.

It's one thing to say it's a tragic consequence of the ongoing bellicosity between Trump and the Ayatollah, which it was, and another thing to say it was Trump's fault.
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Would they have been shooting those rockets if not for Trump's murdering of Soliemani?

Remember, they hadn't used ballistic missiles like that shot towards Iraq in many years.
 
this is not a hill I'm going to die on. My disdain for Trump generally and his escalation in the ME specifically is on record. I'll just say that if I'm on a jury allocating blame for this, and Iran and the US are both defendants, I would tag the US for a very small percentage of the judgment. It's analogous to a barfight where an innocent bystander gets clubbed with a bottle - the guy who started the fight has some responsibility, but the guy who responds and swings the bottle is nearly 100% responsible for where it lands IMO. Even a small share of the responsibility for 172 lost lives is a pretty big stain on Trump's already blackened soul, though. He can take it all up with St. Peter one day.
 
Liquid Karma said:
This is all sounding like the plot for Jack Ryan Season 3
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Well, between season one being Suleman (i*) and season two being civil uprising in Venezuela, I'd say we're essentially living in a TV show. Oh, and there is that Trump dude.
 
I'm going to draw a parallel between blaming Trump for Iran shooting the plane down and blaming Eisenhower for Hitler killing Jews.

I'll just toss that take out into the open and see how it sits.
 
Eisenhower didn't start WWII AND Hitler was killing Jews for many years before we entered the European theater.

Conversely, Iran was NOT shooting ballistic missiles at Iraq Before Trump's act of war.

As usual, you don't have a clue.
 
trump ordered the attack and has provided ZERO evidence on the imminent danger to American interests. It was a great big salty swing of his tiny mushroom d because he was feeling butt hurt.

This is not a situation where he was retaliating for an attack or trying to get ahead of an actual danger. It was needless. That is why he bares more responsibility than a "normal" military conflict.

Didn't matt gaetz just vote with dems in an attempt to curb further attacks against iran without an actual reason? Matt effing gaetz.
 
Gaetz was probably high. Someone probably told him he was voting for Trump for king.
 
Screamindemon3 said:
cOmMoN sEnSe
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Common sense = your emotions.

Today’s revelations = a source.
 
1. The Iranians were shooting rockets last week. https://apnews.com/5c01f233f4a80281e8b65259352a878c

2. The Canadians don't have direct flights from Tehran because they expelled all Iranian diplomats and closed their embassy in Tehran when they severed all diplomatic ties with Iran in 2012.

3. It appears the Iranians clearly made a mistake. When the U.S. was isolating itself, why would they purposely fire on a plane carrying allied citizens and 82 of their own nationals? And then claim everywhere that they did not shoot down the plane.

4. There has been no NATO response.

Donald Trump is an asshole, but he had zero to do with this. There are some really dumb comments here.
 
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Pretty sure both things can be true at the same time.

1. It’s Iran’s fault for shooting down a passenger plane
2. The shooting down of a passenger plane is an unintended consequence of Trump’s Iran “strategy”

Whether you assign most of the blame to #1 or #2, 170 something innocent civilians are now dead.
 
Number two is a conspiracy theory without factual basis.
 
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centerdeac said:
Number two is a conspiracy theory.
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How is it a conspiracy theory?

Trump picked a fight with a bully (after the bully stood down) and the bully accidentally shot someone else in the process of fighting back.

Sure the bully is mostly at fault but all actions (including Trump’s) have consequences.
 
centerdeac said:
1. The Iranians were shooting rockets last week. https://apnews.com/5c01f233f4a80281e8b65259352a878c

2. The Canadians don't have direct flights from Tehran because they expelled all Iranian diplomats and closed their embassy in Tehran when they severed all diplomatic ties with Iran in 2012.

3. It appears the Iranians clearly made a mistake. When the U.S. was isolating itself, why would they purposely fire on a plane carrying allied citizens and 82 of their own nationals? And then claim everywhere that they did not shoot down the plane.

4. There has been no NATO response.

Donald Trump is an asshole, but he had zero to do with this. There are some really dumb comments here.
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They weren't shooting ballistic missiles from inside Iran at the Embassy. What took down the plane was grossly different than what was happening during the attack in Baghdad.

No one said Trump, himself, had anything to do with it, but his murdering of Soliemani did. Iran upped the ante.

It was a tragic mistake.
 
What evidence do you have linking the two? There are no American targets at the Tehran Airport. Shooting at a plane mere kilometers from the airport, well inside your territory, at a commercial flight at a low altitude makes no sense except for solider or computer error. The mistake is there, not that they thought they were hitting Americans.

Please post any evidence to the contrary linking your two. Better, send it to Canadian Secret Service.

Like I said, a lot of dumb posts.
 
How about the words of our Sec. of Defense?

"Defense Secretary Mark Esper and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley told reporters on Wednesday afternoon that 16 ballistic missiles were fired from three locations inside Iran -- 11 at Al Asad Air Base and one near Irbil, with the remaining four missiles failing."

Ballistic missiles were not used last week. The only reason they were used was our murdering of the criminal Soliemani.

The question has to be asked, why are you so intent on defending Trump's illegal and immoral actions that have world in a much dangerous place for no good reason?
 
centerdeac said:
What evidence do you have linking the two? There are no American targets at the Tehran Airport. Shooting at a plane mere kilometers from the airport, well inside your territory, at a commercial flight at a low altitude makes no sense except for solider or computer error. The mistake is there, not that they thought they were hitting Americans.

Please post any evidence to the contrary linking your two. Better, send it to Canadian Secret Service.

Like I said, a lot of dumb posts.
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Who claimed they were targeting Americans? Or even shot the plane on purpose?

It’s pretty clear that iran unintentionally shot it down during a heightened state of alert.

It’s wrong and it’s Iran’s fault...but it’s still an unintended consequence of our “conflict” with Iran.
 
I'm sorry, calling someone an asshole is defending his actions? Escalating the conflict with Iran was stupid and dangerous.

Still, making unfounded assertions because you don't like the guy still isn't logical.
 
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