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Wake Forest Football Recruiting

There are not enough flags to cover the holding and PI calls in that clip. Not all on the D.
 
dcon69 said:
There are not enough flags to cover the holding and PI calls in that clip. Not all on the D.
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That is what I saw on both clips. Lots of holding/PI. The DBs and receivers will have to clean up their games if they expect to succeed at the next level.
 
Groulx is going to be good. Early on in his career I can see veteran CBs disrupting him at the LOS.
 
one-on-one drills with half the field to work in are not very good indicators of game play

impossible to guard much of anyone as a CB there
 
People need to chill the fuck out expecting Groulx (or Greene) to be a big contributor as a true freshman WR. It is just an extremely rare occurrence for a true frosh to be able to make plays at that position.

I'm happy we will have them on the team, but it will take at least a year to get them up to speed.
 
He's going to start Day 1 IMO. He reminds me of Camp more than Dortch but that is due to build (not race). Groulx looks pretty jacked. A la Camp. A career like Camp is not too shabby.
 
Everyone loves to hype highly rated incoming recruits (and WF does not get that many).

Some expected highly rated Mike Allen to make a huge contribution as a true frosh. Instead, he red-shirted and we started to see flashes over the 2nd half of his red-shirt freshman year. Groulx and/or Greene may (or may not) find themselves on a faster track, but agree that expectations should be tempered for those expecting a massive impact next season.
 
Pilchard said:
Everyone loves to hype highly rated incoming recruits (and WF does not get that many).

Some expected highly rated Mike Allen to make a huge contribution as a true frosh. Instead, he red-shirted and we started to see flashes over the 2nd half of his red-shirt freshman year. Groulx and/or Greene may (or may not) find themselves on a faster track, but agree that expectations should be tempered for those expecting a massive impact next season.
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I hear you, but honestly, I don't remember many expecting much from Mike Allen right away because he was coming in so raw. I think most hoped he would make the 2 deep out of camp this year and that was the most aggressive expectation for Allen.

I too would expect Groulx to redshirt (as I do Greene) because of who we already have playing, but that went out the window when Dortch declared. I think that more than leaves a gaping opportunity for Groulx. The fact that he is also already AT WAKE TODAY as a January enrollee on cements it for me. Now, he could get hurt in the Spring and Hinton could come back and we could decide to play Hinton and Roberson there and hope they can hold down the fort for 8 or 9 games, but the opportunity is certainly there for Groulx. Groulx also doesn't need to come in and put on 25 pounds. He has the weight he should have.

As I have already said, I do not have those expectations of Greene for all the reasons above. He's got a bunch of vets, including those who have contributed in Suratt and Washington ahead of him. He also needs to put on weight. I see our WR two deep next year coming out of camp (baring injury) as:

Surratt, Claude
Washington, Jones
Groulx, Roberson/Hinton/Manning

I think the lesson from Dortch leaving is that if a guy is obviously going to stay in the 2 deep as an incoming frosh, then you play him because it is quite possible that he is going to leave after 3 years anyway. It also leaves the possibility of a redshirt year later if someone gets hurt in Spring camp. That is my takeaway from the 4 games rule initiated last year and the departures of Bates and Dortch.

BTW, I don't see Dortch on any first day boards right now. And I STILL think he is doing the right thing by coming out now. You only have so many hits in a body and if he can get paid an extra year to take those hits, he should.
 
The biggest WR wild card to me is Washington. If he stays healthy and cuts the easy drops, he could become the go-to receiver. There are a bunch of unproven guys already on the roster.
 
DeaconSig said:
Camp redshirted.
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We also had Devon Brown in the slot his redshirt year. And Tabari Hines in the slot Dortch's redshirt year. We don't have that quality - so far as we know - ready and available.

In Dortch's case, in hindsight, it was a mistake redshirting him. That said, he was a stick coming in. Neither Camp or Groulx are that.

Cade Carney didn't redshirt for the exact same reasons - he came in early, he was physically ready, and we needed him.

Happy to make a bet with anyone that baring injury - Groulx is not redshirted next year. Easy money.
 
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Pilchard said:
Everyone loves to hype highly rated incoming recruits (and WF does not get that many).

Some expected highly rated Mike Allen to make a huge contribution as a true frosh. Instead, he red-shirted and we started to see flashes over the 2nd half of his red-shirt freshman year. Groulx and/or Greene may (or may not) find themselves on a faster track, but agree that expectations should be tempered for those expecting a massive impact next season.
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This, and it is of utmost importance to “manage” the development of these guys in accordance with the program’s philosophy. If a guy can come in and play, great. But if you are selling another angle to the college experience and one that is not so auto-geared for “Football first” then you have to live up to it. Mike Allen has been brought along at a pace that reflects this change in focus. Wake Forest can not afford to feed its best players/recruits to the wolves and see how it works out. The factories can operate that way but WF is more of an incubator where the majority of the best prospects begin to show out in their 3rd and 4th years. This is in keeping with the student-athlete approach to “University” as opposed to ‘athlete-student’. This doesn’t mean we have guys who don’t have the desire to play on day one..it’s just that the emphasis on priorities (developing the person in all aspects) has greater pull. You will see more and more athletes trend in this direction - guys like Peyton Woulard who is a born leader and gonna be a helluva football player in time.

*Clawson has built veteran teams into MAC champions,for example (a feat that Urban Meyer never achieved in his own tenure at Bowling Green)

With this in mind, 2019 ought to be a push for 9 wins with 2020 yielding a potential “special season” imo
 
jaybone said:
We also had Devon Brown in the slot his redshirt year. And Tabari Hines in the slot Dortch's redshirt year. We don't have that quality - so far as we know - ready and available.

In Dortch's case, in hindsight, it was a mistake redshirting him. That said, he was a stick coming in. Neither Camp or Groulx are that.

Cade Carney didn't redshirt for the exact same reasons - he came in early, he was physically ready, and we needed him.

Happy to make a bet with anyone that baring injury - Groulx is not redshirted next year. Easy money.
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You misunderstand the point. The point is not whether Groulx will play, it is whether he will be any good. He may play. It is doubtful he will be an impact player.
 
jaybone said:
We also had Devon Brown in the slot his redshirt year. And Tabari Hines in the slot Dortch's redshirt year. We don't have that quality - so far as we know - ready and available.

In Dortch's case, in hindsight, it was a mistake redshirting him. That said, he was a stick coming in. Neither Camp or Groulx are that.


Cade Carney didn't redshirt for the exact same reasons - he came in early, he was physically ready, and we needed him.

Happy to make a bet with anyone that baring injury - Groulx is not redshirted next year. Easy money.
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20/20 hindsight on Dortch and Bates— fact is both guys look to be progressing at a rate that has been very beneficial to both young men.
 
DeaconSig said:
You misunderstand the point. The point is not whether Groulx will play, it is whether he will be any good. He may play. It is doubtful he will be an impact player.
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Fair enough. I am certainly not going to declare myself some sort of video expert or even football expert and argue that you are wrong. Of course, I hope you ARE wrong, but I honestly only can observe trends and comment.

Here are the trends I think I can speak to:

* The 4-game rule changed how college coaches and Clawson specifically approaches redshirt seasons.
* Players that are able to come in 6 months early have a huge advantage to those who don't
* Most players need a weight room year, but some don't.
* Many players have a big jump from their first season playing to their second - not necessarily consistently enough to declare it an absolute, but a trend
* Players in their last year of eligibility play to their capabilities for longer stretches

When I look at our roster, I see potential impact players needed at slot, linebacker, interior D-line and both safety spots. If the best players we have for their spots are frosh, then they are going to play.

Carney came in and rushed for 500 yards his frosh year. It would be great if we could have redshirt him. In fact, if the 4-game rule had come in a year earlier, we'd have two years of Carney to go unless he declared next year.

Camp, who I remember being super dynamic from the get go - was actually not. He had very pedestrian number his redshirt frosh year. I expect Groulx to fall somewhere between redshirt frosh Camp and true frosh Carney in his production - but THAT IS A TOTAL GUESS. He plays a position that sees the ball in our offense. Opportunity is there for the taking.
 
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DeaconSig said:
You misunderstand the point. The point is not whether Groulx will play, it is whether he will be any good. He may play. It is doubtful he will be an impact player.
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Ahhh..Nolan will play from day one. His technique is superb,his route running is precise and his hands are strong and sure. He is physically advanced and has 4.5 speed that has improved with each season he has worked on it. Very rarely does WF get an “out of the box” type kid.
 
I think Groulx will be decently productive if he doesn't redshirt, but I don't think he will be the go-to guy like Dortch. He will probably even be a decoy more than a main target against press or man. He will probably get most of his catches in off coverage for 5-10 yards.

It would be pretty interesting to see Surratt in the slot. Crack blocking and quick 6 yard passes where he just boxes the defender out could be fun to watch.
 
Groulx is a top 100 recruit. The reasonable expectation is that those players play from day one
 
skinnydeac said:
I think Groulx will be decently productive if he doesn't redshirt, but I don't think he will be the go-to guy like Dortch. He will probably even be a decoy more than a main target against press or man. He will probably get most of his catches in off coverage for 5-10 yards.

It would be pretty interesting to see Surratt in the slot. Crack blocking and quick 6 yard passes where he just boxes the defender out could be fun to watch.
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Groulx is to be seen as Bachman’s replacement. He is not the explosive open field presence Greg was..
 
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