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Wake Forest Football Recruiting

80deacon said:
Still a last place ranking in the ACC regarding recruits.

Why hasn't Clawson's success with the program resulted in an upgrade in recruiting? I'm not asking for competition with Clemson and FSU. But a middle of the pack class would be nice. If we could get 2-5 4 Stars it would probably put us there. i don't even think Green and Surratt got us out of last place.
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All for recruiting better but 2021's class is a complete crap shoot that all teams, recruiting services, and people in college football have all but said outside of the top 200 or so guys there isn't much for them to go off of as camp season was axed during the biggest year and a considerable amount of the country hasn't/didn't play football. 4 out of the 8 early enrollees havent played a down since 2019, and 10 out of the 19 incoming freshmen havent/wont play their senior year.

We've also been told in the case of guys like Dez Williams and Billy Edwards the only reason they weren't ranked higher was solely because they had an injury sophomore/junior year and the scouts wanted to see more before bumping them. The case for other guys across the nation? Sure, but again this entire 21 class has faults.

Also extremely hard to look at a guy like Will Towns have the season he did to only get bumped down in the rankings. Hazen was the first non-offensive guy to win player of the year since Antoine Winfield and had an absurd year but didn't get moved. Same with Slocum and Bryant who were first team all state in 2 hellish classifications and didn't get moved.

Other years sure complain(even though this was the first year they were DFL since 2018), but it's not being facetious for once with Clawson when he says he could call 1 person and have a bunch of these guys' ratings bumped up. He just actively doesn't care for it. There were two misses in the class(one of them being the weirdest recruitment I've seen in a bit) but all in all as someone who thinks they should be recruiting better and not a big Clawson fan, this one was a fine class so not too strung up about it
 
CamLemons said:
All for recruiting better but 2021's class is a complete crap shoot that all teams, recruiting services, and people in college football have all but said outside of the top 200 or so guys there isn't much for them to go off of as camp season was axed during the biggest year and a considerable amount of the country hasn't/didn't play football. 4 out of the 8 early enrollees havent played a down since 2019, and 10 out of the 19 incoming freshmen havent/wont play their senior year.

We've also been told in the case of guys like Dez Williams and Billy Edwards the only reason they weren't ranked higher was solely because they had an injury sophomore/junior year and the scouts wanted to see more before bumping them. The case for other guys across the nation? Sure, but again this entire 21 class has faults.

Also extremely hard to look at a guy like Will Towns have the season he did to only get bumped down in the rankings. Hazen was the first non-offensive guy to win player of the year since Antoine Winfield and had an absurd year but didn't get moved. Same with Slocum and Bryant who were first team all state in 2 hellish classifications and didn't get moved.

Other years sure complain(even though this was the first year they were DFL since 2018), but it's not being facetious for once with Clawson when he says he could call 1 person and have a bunch of these guys' ratings bumped up. He just actively doesn't care for it. There were two misses in the class(one of them being the weirdest recruitment I've seen in a bit) but all in all as someone who thinks they should be recruiting better and not a big Clawson fan, this one was a fine class so not too strung up about it
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Can you elaborate on the two big misses? I am guessing Sims and.....?

I remember last year Marvin Scott III tweeted that he was committing to Wake and then an hour later he took it down. Still would love to hear what happened there. He eventually ended up at Nebraska.
 
How do we expect to get 4-star recruits in the middle of a culture midlife crisis problem within the football program?
 
TimmyClutch said:
Can you elaborate on the two big misses? I am guessing Sims and.....?

I remember last year Marvin Scott III tweeted that he was committing to Wake and then an hour later he took it down. Still would love to hear what happened there. He eventually ended up at Nebraska.
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TBH put sims out of my mind so thats 3: Crowell, Sims, and then Caden Fordham who committed to Clawson, we all had the articles ready and then all signs pointed louisville and their writers got word from the staff he committed there, and then just out of the blue committed to State. Even their 247 guy wasn't prepared because it was just so out of left field and Fordham just flip flopped so much.

Their WR rankings from right before Crowell committed(and both staffs didn't know where he'd go): Crowell/Dez Williams/Sims/Greene. Just before someone goes "OMG THEY LOST THEIR TOP TWO GUYS CLASS SUCKS" because this is the internet.

I've yet to understand that Marvin Scott story. he seemed like a guy that just wanted to be at a bigger school anyways and I'm guessing he committed but Michigan/Nebraska got in his ear and he had second thoughts. But stories like that work out however they're supposed to so *shrug*

Now that i think about it there's only been 2 decommits that the staff has genuinely been pissed about since I was a freshman. Taylor Powell and Whitter.
 
DeacsOrDie said:
How do we expect to get 4-star recruits in the middle of a culture midlife crisis problem within the football program?
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Dont throw 6(!!!) games in 2 seasons and that'll fix itself(and yes there is a culture issue)
 
BeachBumDeac said:
Throw?
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NC State/Wisconsin/UNC in 2020, Louisville/Cuse/Michigan state in 2019. All just complete throws. You can make a case that NC State was them just covering for having 3 healthy safeties but all in all I view those 6 as games they just shouldn't have lost and were kind of just meltdowns across the board
 
DeacsOrDie said:
Proof? Because Jacquez left?
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Because I've been good friends with guys on the team and I talk to them daily?

Even without the anecdotes if any other team had the attrition Wake did, especially with who they lose, we'd raise eyebrows and say something's fishy there. But as fans of the team it's not really a thing we do. Do I think there needs to be a massive roster overhaul or coaching overhaul? No. Do I think certain people need to get their shit together and realize there is a budding issue? Yes. No offense to guys like Woulard/Essissima/Malik Grate etc. But you are going to have some attrition and that's fine. But losing guys like Elko and Tyler Santucci and Hourigan hurt more than people think because those were guys that people on the team trusted way more than others.

Jessie and Dortch aren't the best examples because they both took a shot. Jessie was kind of out of the blue but it paid off. From the draft people I've talked to about Dortch, it was about 50/50 on whether staying another year would help, so I get the move to leave.

Jamie/KW3/Rucker/Quez speak more to the issue.

Don't be a petty son of a bitch and not nominate someone for All-ACC just because they opted out with a couple of games left due to them feeling the pandemic was getting worse(and that's the least of the issues)
 
BeachBumDeac said:
Chokes or throws? Throwing a game has a very specific meaning.
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I get what you're saying. I pretty much using them interchangeably and countless others that I know do as well. But no I am not insinuating they are losing these games on purpose. It's also not necessarily a choke in games say like Louisville. When I think of choke I think of a missed FG to lose the game or dropped pass in the end zone. Not one that they just didn't show up for a half fo whatever reason
 
BeachBumDeac said:
He liked one of James’ tweets at him.
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I said I was upset when we missed him initially and he would fill a spot we desperately need after losing Rucker. Maybe he wants to come home. I can see us and VT and honestly if we were a higher profile school I think we would have gotten him initially. Now that he has graduated. I think it fits
 
CamLemons said:
Because I've been good friends with guys on the team and I talk to them daily?

Even without the anecdotes if any other team had the attrition Wake did, especially with who they lose, we'd raise eyebrows and say something's fishy there. But as fans of the team it's not really a thing we do. Do I think there needs to be a massive roster overhaul or coaching overhaul? No. Do I think certain people need to get their shit together and realize there is a budding issue? Yes. No offense to guys like Woulard/Essissima/Malik Grate etc. But you are going to have some attrition and that's fine. But losing guys like Elko and Tyler Santucci and Hourigan hurt more than people think because those were guys that people on the team trusted way more than others.

Jessie and Dortch aren't the best examples because they both took a shot. Jessie was kind of out of the blue but it paid off. From the draft people I've talked to about Dortch, it was about 50/50 on whether staying another year would help, so I get the move to leave.

Jamie/KW3/Rucker/Quez speak more to the issue.

Don't be a petty son of a bitch and not nominate someone for All-ACC just because they opted out with a couple of games left due to them feeling the pandemic was getting worse(and that's the least of the issues)
Click to expand...
 
CamLemons said:
Elko and Tyler Santucci and Hourigan hurt more than people think because those were guys that people on the team trusted way more than others.





Don't be a petty son of a bitch
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First part sounds more like a financial issue.

Second part - is that what you're calling Clawson?
 
The college football landscape has changed. I would assume schools like Wake will potentially lose their top performing players (3 star recruits) to elite programs, and Wake will gain underperforming 4 and 5 star players from top programs. This is all a result of how easy it is to transfer. Also, now football players will put into the equation not only making it to the NFL, but how much money they can make at a particular school because of endorsements. It seems many students now get masters degrees. Depending on your interests there is an opportunity actually to graduate with a bachelors, gain a different experience or expertise in a particular major by leveraging football. Imagine if a Wake football degree could get you a fifth year at Stanford where you could begin an MBA or masters program in the area of technology, then land a job in Silicon Valley as opposed to Wilksboro. Lots of options for these kids and they can still get a degree from mother so dear. Ultimately, Clawson is an innovator, open to change, and I think he will navigate these opportunities/ challenges better than most coaches; hence, expect Wake to be better not worse on the football field.
 
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DeacsOrDie said:
I am not against adding depth in the secondary, especially from a local guy. But what is the appeal of Cone (compared to potentially other CBs/S that may be on the market)?

Career 26 tackles, 2 picks, the most games he played in a season was 9 in 2019 as he switched to safety.
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I think it’s kind of like the two kids coming from Michigan he adds one year depth to replace Rucker at position of need and was decently ranked out of school. The sad thing is if you think about all this 4* kids that waste away on the benches of a Michigan, Wisconsin, or Baka could be 3 or 4 year starters at Wake.
 
DeacsOrDie said:
First part sounds more like a financial issue.

Second part - is that what you're calling Clawson?
Click to expand...

Elko is more of a financial issue, Santucci and Hourigan(Vandy isn't paying a hell of a lot more than Wake for the same position given their financial issues)

From anecdote to anecdote it isn't just Clawson but specifically, that was regarded as a dick move and players didn't really care for that. Again that's on the "lesser end" of things but it's not the first or last time we'll see clawson be a dick(while publicly saying all the right things)
 
CamLemons said:
All for recruiting better but 2021's class is a complete crap shoot that all teams, recruiting services, and people in college football have all but said outside of the top 200 or so guys there isn't much for them to go off of as camp season was axed during the biggest year and a considerable amount of the country hasn't/didn't play football. 4 out of the 8 early enrollees havent played a down since 2019, and 10 out of the 19 incoming freshmen havent/wont play their senior year.

We've also been told in the case of guys like Dez Williams and Billy Edwards the only reason they weren't ranked higher was solely because they had an injury sophomore/junior year and the scouts wanted to see more before bumping them. The case for other guys across the nation? Sure, but again this entire 21 class has faults.

Also extremely hard to look at a guy like Will Towns have the season he did to only get bumped down in the rankings. Hazen was the first non-offensive guy to win player of the year since Antoine Winfield and had an absurd year but didn't get moved. Same with Slocum and Bryant who were first team all state in 2 hellish classifications and didn't get moved.

Other years sure complain(even though this was the first year they were DFL since 2018), but it's not being facetious for once with Clawson when he says he could call 1 person and have a bunch of these guys' ratings bumped up. He just actively doesn't care for it. There were two misses in the class(one of them being the weirdest recruitment I've seen in a bit) but all in all as someone who thinks they should be recruiting better and not a big Clawson fan, this one was a fine class so not too strung up about it
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You're not a big Clawson fan. I'd argue he has done incredibly well, especially since we had UNREAL Wakeyleaks to start his tenure.

Grobe completely rejuvenated the program after the Caldwell (nearly equal to Buzz or Manning) disaster.

Then after 2011 at Clemson, an actual choke missing the chippy FG, Grobe just sort of "ah shucks" and couldn't get it done.

So, Claw stepped into a mess, plus Wakeyleaks, seems like he has done a great job.

He appears to be a good guy, too. Can't imagine he is ok with some sort of culture issue in the program.
 
socaldeac said:
The college football landscape has changed. I would assume schools like Wake will potentially lose their top performing players (3 star recruits) to elite programs, and Wake will gain underperforming 4 and 5 star players from top programs. This is all a result of how easy it is to transfer. Also, now football players will put into the equation not only making it to the NFL, but how much money they can make at a particular school because of endorsements. It seems many students now get masters degrees. Depending on your interests there is an opportunity actually to graduate with a bachelors, gain a different experience or expertise in a particular major by leveraging football. Imagine if a Wake football degree could get you a fifth year at Stanford where you could begin an MBA or masters program in the area of technology, then land a job in Silicon Valley as opposed to Wilksboro. Lots of options for these kids and they can still get a degree from mother so dear. Ultimately, Clawson is an innovator, open to change, and I think he will navigate these opportunities/ challenges better than most coaches; hence, expect Wake to be better not worse on the football field.
Click to expand...

Losing top performing players to elite programs isn't really a thing that's the result of the college football landscape. You have guys trying to escape dumpster fires(Khalil Herbert, Andrew Parchment, Drew Jordan come to mind) but there are a considerable amount of players that choose to stay when they could go anywhere: Hassan Beydoun at Eastern Michigan, Kevin Marks at Buffalo, Sam Pinckney at Georgia State, the list goes on that could be snapped up by an elite program but stay committed.

Wake has to do a better job of a) keeping their guys committed like the other schools do and b) make it easier to transfer in as a non grad transfer. In both basketball and football it's infuriating seeing the guys who want to come here but lose a million credits because Wake's system is dumb and harder to get into than places like Stanford or Michigan. That's also not Clawson's change so whatever your thoughts are on him he still doesn't really have a say
 
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