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Penn State fraternity murder

I definitely agree they made terrible choices, and deserve the consequences. I feel terrible for the family of the kid who died and everything they have had to go through. However, I also feel badly for those kids involved. They made terrible choices that will impact their lives forever but they did not go into this trying to harm anyone. Thousands of kids go through something like this pledging every year and I feel lucky I was not involved in a serious situation like this. The kids did not mean for him to get this way and were probably worried about their charter being pulled, getting an MIP or something stupid like that and did not realize the gravity of the situation. That could come off as insensitive but that is really not what I am going for. I just can look at it from both perspectives and see the tragedy. Honestly if the drinking age was 18 this would not have happened I don't think, as they would be far more likely to involve authorities if they were all legally drinking but thats a different issue for a different day.
 
OH give me a fucking break.

You don't push people to such extremes as regularly as it would take where a concussed man falling face first down stairs, into walls, into the ground, and having to forcefully keep him in certain positions is seen as "acceptable" or "just another drunk pledge".

The kid's life probably could have been saved multiple times that night, but those guys just pretended it was another pledge ounces away from alcohol poisoning being a "pussy" and passing out in the floor.

It's despicable and disgusting.
 
deacfan123 said:
I definitely agree they made terrible choices, and deserve the consequences. I feel terrible for the family of the kid who died and everything they have had to go through. However, I also feel badly for those kids involved. They made terrible choices that will impact their lives forever but they did not go into this trying to harm anyone. Thousands of kids go through something like this pledging every year and I feel lucky I was not involved in a serious situation like this. The kids did not mean for him to get this way and were probably worried about their charter being pulled, getting an MIP or something stupid like that and did not realize the gravity of the situation. That could come off as insensitive but that is really not what I am going for. I just can look at it from both perspectives and see the tragedy. Honestly if the drinking age was 18 this would not have happened I don't think, as they would be far more likely to involve authorities if they were all legally drinking but thats a different issue for a different day.
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This is dumb. 'Mob mentality' doesn't excuse you from being so negligent that someone dies.
Yes, it is tragic all around - for the victim and for the boys responsible. That said, it is absolutely shameful none of them had enough of a spine to do the right thing and get him some help.
 
I said it does not excuse them and they deserve to face the consequences. I just think that it is scary how easily this can happen and I feel bad for those who have to suffer for the rest of their lives for making a dumb decision to make a pledge drink when they are 19 years old.
 
That's the point. I personally saw friends go through hazing at Wake that was WAYYY over the top, and they were well beyond a safe level of alcohol consumption. The system needs changing if it is seen as just another pledge drinking too much. Find ways to 'haze' or initiate members that don't involve such drastic levels of alcohol consumption.

It's too much, and should NEVER be treated as too commonplace or typical to fix.
 
deacfan123 said:
I said it does not excuse them and they deserve to face the consequences. I just think that it is scary how easily this can happen and I feel bad for those who have to suffer for the rest of their lives for making a dumb decision to make a pledge drink when they are 19 years old.
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they watched him fall head-first down a flight of stairs and did NOTHING FOR HIM. that's past a 'dumb decision.'
 
Yeah every single brother there that night should be held legally accountable. To let a pledge slowly die like that because you were too busy hazing other pledges or because you didn't want to get busted for underage drinking, is absolutely criminal.
 
between this and them putting Jay Paterno on the board, it's beyond time to shut that school down for good.
 
OblongPickle said:
That's the point. I personally saw friends go through hazing at Wake that was WAYYY over the top, and they were well beyond a safe level of alcohol consumption. The system needs changing if it is seen as just another pledge drinking too much. Find ways to 'haze' or initiate members that don't involve such drastic levels of alcohol consumption.

It's too much, and should NEVER be treated as too commonplace or typical to fix.
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I agree with that, I don't really see the point or what is fun about making someone drink a ton anyways.
 
deacfan123 said:
I said it does not excuse them and they deserve to face the consequences. I just think that it is scary how easily this can happen and I feel bad for those who have to suffer for the rest of their lives for making a dumb decision to make a pledge drink when they are 19 years old.
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The dumb decisions started when the made him drink. The criminal decisions started when they decided not to get him medical help.
 
deacfan123 said:
I definitely agree they made terrible choices, and deserve the consequences. I feel terrible for the family of the kid who died and everything they have had to go through. However, I also feel badly for those kids involved. They made terrible choices that will impact their lives forever but they did not go into this trying to harm anyone. Thousands of kids go through something like this pledging every year and I feel lucky I was not involved in a serious situation like this. The kids did not mean for him to get this way and were probably worried about their charter being pulled, getting an MIP or something stupid like that and did not realize the gravity of the situation. That could come off as insensitive but that is really not what I am going for. I just can look at it from both perspectives and see the tragedy. Honestly if the drinking age was 18 this would not have happened I don't think, as they would be far more likely to involve authorities if they were all legally drinking but thats a different issue for a different day.
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Give me a fucklng break. There's no reason for that kind of hazing or physical hazing. There's no justification or rationalization for dickish frat boy torture.

It has ZERO to do with drinking when they are 19. A 40 yo could die like that.
 
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Dumb decision: KAs holding a handcuff party.
Better decision: older KA brother driving passed-out people to student health.

There is absolutely zero reason as to why nobody could have taken him somewhere for help.
 
lbE08 said:
Dumb decision: KAs holding a handcuff party.
Better decision: older KA brother driving passed-out people to student health.

There is absolutely zero reason as to why nobody could have taken him somewhere for help.
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Isn't this the party where you hooked it with BojangleFunk?
 
Also, reading the account in the article made me feel physically ill. Ugh.
 
wakephan09 said:
Also, reading the account in the article made me feel physically ill. Ugh.
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yeah, reading the text conversations are what got to me. the kid who said something about him falling down the stairs should have sacked up and done more at that point.
 
lbE08 said:
I went with him, but we were not 'together.'
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Just literally handcuffed together? Isn't the whole point of handcuffing yourself together so you have to hook it later in the night? How do you go to the toilet?
 
wakephan09 said:
Just literally handcuffed together? Isn't the whole point of handcuffing yourself together so you have to hook it later in the night? How do you go to the toilet?
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you know, I don't remember too much about that night, but I don't feel like we were cuffed together very long. we were uncuffed before I was completely out of it.
and no - the handcuffing thing is just until you finish a 5th between you (because what could go wrong).
 
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