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Trump Establishes Voter Fraud Commission

are the people who are saying something that is minuscule, albeit does happen and should have a law to prevent it also the ones that say that since the trans population is so small we need not be bothered with laws protecting them?
 
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/448098/virginia-voter-fraud-report-noncitizens-voted-illegally

In 2014, three professors from two Virginia universities estimated, based on comprehensive survey data, that 6.4 percent of the nation’s non-citizen population voted illegally in the 2008 election, enough to have changed the outcome in some states.

This "study" has been shown to have used BS methodology. It has no validity whatsoever.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...f-non-citizens-voting/?utm_term=.af1e445d86b5

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/donald-trump-illegal-votes-evidence-debunked-214487

There are many other stories that show your "evidence" is nonsense.
 
This is the part where I feel compelled to point out that a generally-applicable regulation is only "racist!' if you accept the premise that members of a certain race are uniquely incapable of complying with it. What about voter id is racist? Be specific.

Minorities, especially African Americans and Latinos, are less likely to have an accepted ID for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with their skin color. It is also more burdensome, on average, for minorities to obtain an accepted ID, again for reasons that have nothing to do with their skin color.

If a jurisdiction wants to personally deliver a free photo ID to every citizen and then require that ID to vote that might be something I can get behind, if only because I think it would be beneficial for everyone to have an ID.
 
You two are arguing different things. Requiring an ID to vote is not inherently racist, but it would overwhelmingly impact people of a certain race the ability to vote. As to the NC laws he was referring to, those were pretty clearly "systematically targeting" black voters, which is the definition of racism.

Requiring voter ID's that you have to pay for is the black letter definition of a poll tax. If you don't pay, you can't vote. That's a poll tax.

The laws in many states were intentionally written to suppress the vote of people of color, the poor and the elderly.
 
You two are arguing different things. Requiring an ID to vote is not inherently racist, but it would overwhelmingly impact people of a certain race the ability to vote. As to the NC laws he was referring to, those were pretty clearly "systematically targeting" black voters, which is the definition of racism.

That sentence is contradictory. Given the minuscule problem voter ID laws purportedly address, any voter ID law that "overwhelmingly impacts people of a certain race" is inherently racist.

I think some of the lawyers here are conflating racism with being subject to strict scrutiny.
 
Minorities, especially African Americans and Latinos, are less likely to have an accepted ID for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with their skin color. It is also more burdensome, on average, for minorities to obtain an accepted ID, again for reasons that have nothing to do with their skin color.

If a jurisdiction wants to personally deliver a free photo ID to every citizen and then require that ID to vote that might be something I can get behind, if only because I think it would be beneficial for everyone to have an ID.

There's a very simple, cost-effective way to end (which is virtually non-existent anyway) in person voter fraud. Have a webcam at every polling place and require each voter to put their thumb/fingerprint on the registration role. You'll have a video of every person who votes and the identifying thumb'fingerprint. Make it 10 years in federal prison and a $250,000 fine for voter impersonation fraud and we are done with it.

What's not surprising is the avenue that could create the easiest method of voter fraud is via absentee ballot. How do we know the person who sent in the absentee ballot is the real person? My bad, this is overwhelmingly done by middle class and above voters who tend to be white. Only poor and people of color commit voter fraud according to GOP state lawmakers.
 
I also love that when it comes to people committing felonies in numbers so small that it would only impact the closest of elections republicans are all for placing additional burdens on the exercise of a constitutional right.

But when it comes to people committing felonies that result in injury or death to tens of thousands of people each year republicans are like "sucks but the constitution though."
 
There's a very simple, cost-effective way to end (which is virtually non-existent anyway) in person voter fraud. Have a webcam at every polling place and require each voter to put their thumb/fingerprint on the registration role. You'll have a video of every person who votes and the identifying thumb'fingerprint. Make it 10 years in federal prison and a $250,000 fine for voter impersonation fraud and we are done with it.

What's not surprising is the avenue that could create the easiest method of voter fraud is via absentee ballot. How do we know the person who sent in the absentee ballot is the real person? My bad, this is overwhelmingly done by middle class and above voters who tend to be white. Only poor and people of color commit voter fraud according to GOP state lawmakers.

Or just make voter fraud a felony and you won't have a voter fraud problem.

Wait, we already did that? And there's not widespread voter fraud in this country? Then why the fuck are we wasting our time on it?
 
That sentence is contradictory. Given the minuscule problem voter ID laws purportedly address, any voter ID law that "overwhelmingly impacts people of a certain race" is inherently racist.

I think some of the lawyers here are conflating racism with being subject to strict scrutiny.

Let me clarify my statement.

In a vacuum, requiring an ID to vote is not racist in the least. It's a piece of paper issued from the government showing you are who you say you are.

If ID's were issued, accepted, and obtainable by everybody at equal rates then there is no problem here. The problem is that in the United States this is not the case, and therein lies the problem of requiring an ID to vote/why it does impact people of color more than it does a white person.

Perhaps semantics on my end as I think we agree.
 
You two are arguing different things. Requiring an ID to vote is not inherently racist, but it would overwhelmingly impact people of a certain race the ability to vote. As to the NC laws he was referring to, those were pretty clearly "systematically targeting" black voters, which is the definition of racism.

Alabama's laws and actions were absolutely racist. They passed a voter ID law, which I don't disagree with, but then, citing budget cuts, they closed all but 5 of the drivers licence offices in the state and the closures were disproportionately in majority Black counties and cities (e.g., Tuskegee, Selma, etc.). I believe a federal court has told the State they have to reopen the licence offices.
 
The issues in the voter database were corrected in the voter registration database before the general election, Granville County officials said.

Good to know the system works!
 
This "study" has been shown to have used BS methodology. It has no validity whatsoever.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...f-non-citizens-voting/?utm_term=.af1e445d86b5

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/donald-trump-illegal-votes-evidence-debunked-214487

There are many other stories that show your "evidence" is nonsense.

The 6% figure is definitely a high end outlier estimate of illegal voting prevalence. Even if the study were good, 6% of illegals voting means at most about 660,000 illegal votes. One illegal vote is too many, of course, but 660,000 is 2,340,000 fewer than Trump claims.
 
The 6% figure is definitely a high end outlier estimate of illegal voting prevalence. Even if the study were good, 6% of illegals voting means at most about 660,000 illegal votes. One illegal vote is too many, of course, but 660,000 is 2,340,000 fewer than Trump claims.

The "study" is in no way scientific. There's no way for the people doing the study to actually confirm or deny their data. It's totally BS.
 
Alabama's laws and actions were absolutely racist. They passed a voter ID law, which I don't disagree with, but then, citing budget cuts, they closed all but 5 of the drivers licence offices in the state and the closures were disproportionately in majority Black counties and cities (e.g., Tuskegee, Selma, etc.). I believe a federal court has told the State they have to reopen the licence offices.

I'm sure board conservatives will defend.
 
This is the part where I feel compelled to point out that a generally-applicable regulation is only "racist!' if you accept the premise that members of a certain race are uniquely incapable of complying with it. What about voter id is racist? Be specific.

Ask the 4th Circuit.
 
The "study" is in no way scientific. There's no way for the people doing the study to actually confirm or deny their data. It's totally BS.

I haven't read the study and I don't know anything about the methodologies, I am just pointing out that the most extreme case and the only study that even remotely supports the conservative case, they are talking about hundreds of thousands of illegal votes, far fewer than the millions of illegal votes that their dear leader has claimed. In other words, at best, their math is still off by over 2.3 million.
 
Can you see this argument? Because normalizing marginalization isn't a good thing, in this and other contexts.

What does this mean? How is giving everyone a free ID (that you want to require them to have in order to exercise a constitutional right that is the foundation of democracy) "normalizing marginalization?"
 
Lowering common sense, widely-applicable societal standards because you think some people can't achieve them is---at best---normalizing marginalization.

Why do you think people of color have a harder time getting photo ID's?
 
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