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John Collins and the draft

Deacfreak07 said:
#DonkBias The Spurs could turn Collins into a great player if enough teams are dumb enough to pass on him. I doubt they are though.
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Collins would kill it off the bench for a top or 2nd tier team.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
"Poor defender who doesn’t stay seated in his stance and gets too handsy. He’s not lazy, just lacks fundamentals.
Skinny frame, and not particularly long or explosive, so his rim-protection upside is naturally limited.
Ineffective shooter, but has good touch and average mechanics. Needs to fix his set point and have consistent footwork to improve.
Lacks passing vision. He telegraphs too many passes or doesn’t spot open players."
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Some of this is right, some of it is dumb. I mean, he was dominant at Wake and drew a ton of double teams - there's no hiding his lack of assists. He's simply a poor passer at this point, but so are most big men. And the defensive argument is legit. You can't whitewash it due to fouls. He was invisible defensively in a number of games where he had no foul trouble. Sure, he's not a 5 in the league, but not putting a dent in the numbers of guys like DJ Johnson/LeDay/Colson down the stretch means he'll struggle against NBA 4's until he fills out more.

The rest seems like nonsense. He's plenty athletic and explosive at his size, gets to the rim quickly, has a high rebounding IQ. He was hitting turnaround baseline jumpers in the 2nd half of the season whereas he couldn't hit anything more than a set free-throw distance shot in year 1. He'll likely be a Horford-like 3 point shooter in the NBA. His body transformation from year 1 to year 2 also suggests he'll easily add weight and strength as a pro, especially considering his age. Hits his free throws, has excellent handles at his size, must be extremely coachable to improve so much in a single year. I think he tracks as a rock solid starting 4 in the NBA 3 years from now.
 
Strickland33 said:
This is a horrible scouting report.
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That's the "Minuses" section. The "Pluses" part precedes it. It's all a pretty fair assessment IMO.


Advanced interior scorer. Knows how to carve out space, score through contact, and finish with both hands.
Smart in the pick-and-roll. He’s a lob threat, smooth on drives, and excellent at beating switches. Needs to improve screening, though.
Great face-up scoring potential if his shot improves. Has a good first step, can attack off the bounce due to good footwork.
Very good rebounder, especially offensively. His instincts shine through in how he tracks the trajectory of the ball.
Struggles defensively, but he plays hard and is a fluid athlete. With the right coaching he could become an effective two-way player.
 
pourdeac said:
That's the "Minuses" section. The "Pluses" part precedes it. It's all a pretty fair assessment IMO.


Advanced interior scorer. Knows how to carve out space, score through contact, and finish with both hands.
Smart in the pick-and-roll. He’s a lob threat, smooth on drives, and excellent at beating switches. Needs to improve screening, though.
Great face-up scoring potential if his shot improves. Has a good first step, can attack off the bounce due to good footwork.
Very good rebounder, especially offensively. His instincts shine through in how he tracks the trajectory of the ball.
Struggles defensively, but he plays hard and is a fluid athlete. With the right coaching he could become an effective two-way player.
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That makes more sense.

Get it together, numbers.
 
Strickland33 said:
That makes more sense.

Get it together, numbers.
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Also, Chad Ford, has him 16th on his Big Board, which incorporates stuff from GMs etc. The Ringer one is just the rankings of 3 of their writers, so it does not really say much about where guys will go in the draft.
 
I wrongly assumed people would click on the link two spots above me from the Ringer. I pulled the weaknesses from the chart because he's somehow ranked 49th there to see what they could be missing on.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
"Poor defender who doesn’t stay seated in his stance and gets too handsy. He’s not lazy, just lacks fundamentals.
Skinny frame, and not particularly long or explosive, so his rim-protection upside is naturally limited.
Ineffective shooter, but has good touch and average mechanics. Needs to fix his set point and have consistent footwork to improve.
Lacks passing vision. He telegraphs too many passes or doesn’t spot open players."

Good news, in my totally biased opinion, is that two of these four I don't really see as concerns. He's a very good passer for his size and I'm not sure where the "lacks vision" canard came from but it popped up a few times randomly last year too on articles about him. He seems to be a decent shooter but didn't take many during games because it didn't make any sense in the offense. One of the most efficient college players of the last decade and our only legitimately good big - why would we have him taking jumpers or extending his range in the offense when he would otherwise need to be inside?
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huh?
 
Yeah, no clue where that came from. He really hasn't shown any real ability as a passer.

Maybe not an elite rim protector but I thought he actually showed some real skill in help defense situations at the rim blocking shots after guards being our guys on the dribble. He was a terrible one-on-one defender and maybe even worse losing his man off the ball. Hopefully that can be improved.
 
I think he can be a good perimeter defender or PNR defender with time. I also think he'll be a good passer in an offense in which he's not facing double teams and he isn't the first, second, and third option.
 
Doubt he'll ever be a good passer but I'd love to be wrong. I feel like bigs that are good passers show that ability really early. Just a #gutfeeling.
 
timdunkandthefunk said:
Ranked 49th (!!!) in the Ringer's updated draft guide.
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hell.

ESPN Insider
15. Portland Trail Blazers

John Collins
Wake Forest
Sophomore
Forward

Collins' position on the board will depend a lot on how well he shoots in workouts. He's a good rebounder and can score in the paint, but scouts who watched him play in practices at Wake think he's going to develop the ability to shoot 3s as well.

He's also the youngest sophomore in the draft and perhaps one of the two or three most improved players in college basketball. There's still some real upside here.
 
Man I hope the nugs take him as he could fit into their rotation. Highly doubt thatll happen, but one can dream
 
discdude said:
Man I hope the nugs take him as he could fit into their rotation. Highly doubt thatll happen, but one can dream
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Has any franchise drafted two Deacs?
 
This looks like a new mock draft - #18 to Pacers

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/05/24/nba-mock-draft-lonzo-ball-markelle-fultz-debate-celtics-lakers

"The Pacers are in the Pistons category: there are enough bigger, scarier existential questions to make this pick a secondary concern. Given the confusion about the future with or without Paul George, let's give them John Collins, probably the most productive and skilled power forward in the draft. He can't really stretch the floor at this point, but that's OK, because he's awesome."
 
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