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Spurs Thread

CP3 (32) 4 1st team, 2 2nd team, 2 3rd team (8 total)
Westbrook (28) 2 1st team, 4 2nd team (6 total)
Kidd (40+) 5 1st team, 1 2nd team (6 total)
Curry (29) 2 1st team, 2 2nd team (4 total)
Harden (27) 3 1st team, 1 3rd team (4 total)

I know diddly about win share stats, but Westbrook, Curry, and Harden are all grouped together and compare with David Thompson, Sidney Moncrief, Mark Price, and Dwayne Wade
CP3, by comparison, is grouped with Magic, Jerry West, Oscar, Kobe.
 
bmoneydeac said:
No triple double in Magic's game starting at 5 (game 6, 1980). 42/15/7 going off my memory.
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Then it was the 199? NBA finals they lost against the Bulls that Magic got his triple doubles. Regardless, hasn't been much of a marker since
 
jaybone said:
Triple doubles became a marker really only this year. Even in Magic's era, the only time triple doubles got big play was the RING Magic won when he went from starting 1 to starting 5 (when Abdul-Jabbar went down), and he got either a triple or quadruple double. The Big O did his thing, then no real triple double discussion until Magic Finals 198?, then nothing again until last year.

I think the guy with the most triple doubles between Magic and Harden/Russ is Jason Kidd.

Anyway, I believe the marker has been and continues to be (for the last 30 years): championships, MVPs, 1st/2nd/3rd team all-NBA.

As my marker, I give you Michael Jordan. How many triple doubles for Michael? Arguably the greatest player of all-time.
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Don't necessarily agree with that but here is where the 4 PGs stand (I used MVP shares rather than MVPs because it provides more context and is a little less all or nothing):

CP3: 0 ships, 1.64 MVP shares, 8 All-NBA teams (4 1st team), 8 All defense (6 1st team)

Steph: 1 ship, 1.977 MVP shares (will go up slightly this year), 4 All NBA (2 1sts), 0 All defense

Westbrook: 0 ships, .653 MVP shares (will go up significantly this year), 6 All NBA teams (2 1st), 0 all defense

Harden: 0 ships, .822 MVP shares (will go up significantly this year), 4 All NBA teams (3 1st), 0 All Defense
 
Jaybone beat me to it. Here are Win Shares and WS per 48 minutes:

Harden: 91.3 WS, .212 WS/48

Westbrook: 80.1 WS, .169 WS/48

Curry: 84.2 WS, .203 WS/48



CP3: 154.6 WS, .250 WS/48
 
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RChildress107 said:
How do you slice NBA generations? Are Magic and Bird the same generation? Their age difference is about the same as Chris and Steph.
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Magic and Bird played against each other for an NCAA Championship and entered the league in the same year. Of course they're in the same generation.
 
PhDeac said:
Magic and Bird played against each other for an NCAA Championship and entered the league in the same year. Of course they're in the same generation.
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Then how are Parker and Chris in the same generation? How are you defining generation and how tight is the cutoff?

Are Reggie Miller and Scottie Pippen a different generation than MJ? Are Tim and Shaq different generations? What about KG and Dirk?
 
Apparently dedmon has officially declined his option. No surprise.
 
Best news of the day?

It appears that Simmons may be subject to the Gilbert Arenas rule. Teams can't offer him more than the MLE giving the spurs the chance to resign him at that price.
 
jaybone said:
CP3 (32) 4 1st team, 2 2nd team, 2 3rd team (8 total)
Westbrook (28) 2 1st team, 4 2nd team (6 total)
Kidd (40+) 5 1st team, 1 2nd team (6 total)
Curry (29) 2 1st team, 2 2nd team (4 total)
Harden (27) 3 1st team, 1 3rd team (4 total)

I know diddly about win share stats, but Westbrook, Curry, and Harden are all grouped together and compare with David Thompson, Sidney Moncrief, Mark Price, and Dwayne Wade
CP3, by comparison, is grouped with Magic, Jerry West, Oscar, Kobe.
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Oscar Robertson is the greatest player in the history of the game. What he accomplished....and the circumstances under which he had to play at the time....are beyond compare. I saw him play at Raleigh in the 1958 Dixie Classic. He scored 29 points in each one of the three games...while enduring constant verbal abuse from many fans. He also had a triple-double for an entire 82-game season.....and he was only 6'5". There is a reason why the award given annually to the nation's best college basketball player is called the Oscar Robertson Trophy.
 
RChildress107 said:
Then how are Parker and Chris in the same generation? How are you defining generation and how tight is the cutoff?

Are Reggie Miller and Scottie Pippen a different generation than MJ? Are Tim and Shaq different generations? What about KG and Dirk?
Click to expand...

Honestly, I've never given it much thought until now. It's a "you know it when you see it" thing. I guess I've considered a generation to be players who played against each other in AAU ball and/or in college and/or were in their rookie deals and got their first big contracts around the same time. Players who were grouped together as they entered the league.
 
deaconson said:
Best news of the day?

It appears that Simmons may be subject to the Gilbert Arenas rule. Teams can't offer him more than the MLE giving the spurs the chance to resign him at that price.
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Which the Spurs definitely should try to do, especially with Manu retiring.

The Parker injury/salary is a killer. So is Pao.

If they can somehow trade Pao (clearly declining), they'd probably need to re-sign David Lee for depth at the 5.

Guys I like out there...James Johnson, Otto Porter, Jerebko (just needs a chance and is way better than Bertans), Ibaka but that ain't happening, George Hill (sort of), Patrick Patterson (sort of), and Simmons.

So, try to get Simmons back and somehow trade for or sign JJ, Jerebko or Porter. Not sure you need CP3, G. Hill or even a Deron Williams since D. Murray looks like the PG for right now with a very high upside. Maybe Deron for depth or some other vet.

Bye Bye: Manu/Dedmon/Mills and hopefully somehow Pao. It's like Kawhi, D. Murray and the gang of imperfect other/sluggish dudes.

Draft Jordan Bell, if there, then late second rd...no idea. Maybe the big Aussie kid, but the issue is you need guys like JJ, Porter, Jerebko, Jordan Bell for small ball/quickness options, not 6'11 stiffs.

This type of roster could do some work:
Murray
Green
Kawhi
*JJ/Jerebko/Porter
LMA - needs to get in shape and start looking at video of how he is becoming Greg Monroe or Derrick Favors. Not good.
*Simmons
*Bell
Maybe Bertans, but he too needs to hit the gym with LMA, as a guy like Jerebko will just shove Bertans around.

That is a leaner, meaner group, which you need to keep up with GS and Cleveland.
 
It's not that hard to get CP3 if they can trade Pau. They are $6M under now-add $10M by doing a waive and stretch on Parker and trade Pau's $16M+. This gives them $32M for CP3. It would also allow them to re-sign Simmons.
 
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PhDeac said:
Honestly, I've never given it much thought until now. It's a "you know it when you see it" thing. I guess I've considered a generation to be players who played against each other in AAU ball and/or in college and/or were in their rookie deals and got their first big contracts around the same time. Players who were grouped together as they entered the league.
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That's fair but would make all those examples a hard no which seems weird. I guess I view generations as "did your prime's overlap significantly" with the understanding that truly great players will overlap with different generations.

I guess it might be more accurate to view Paul, and to a lesser extent Parker, as a bridge between Kidd and Nash and Steph/Westbrook/Harden.

CP3, like Lebron, is tough to assign to a generation since they both entered the league at a relative down point and have both been in their prime (minus a year and a half post injury for Paul) for a decade.
 
I had thought it was more of a question mark as to whether or not Pau Gasol would exercise his player option... Had read somewhere that he might be better served opting out and signing a 3 year deal elsewhere at similar money. Not sure if any potential suitors have backed away, be it seems like it's a near certainty that he's going to be back next season. I don't think he's as washed up as many here apparently do. His numbers were down a bit in a decreased role, but he's still an asset on offense (and on the glass).

That makes it highly unlikely that anything major will happen with the Spurs this offseason... Mills probably leaves (unless they overpay) and they probably re-sign Simmons given the Arenas rule.

So you are looking at a similar roster in 2017-18 (probably without Mills, Dedmon, and maybe Manu)... Murray gets more minutes and maybe they bring Hanga over from Europe. They'll also probably sign a PG for until Parker comes back (or in case he doesn't). CP3 is not coming to San Antonio. Lowry also a longshot, though an interesting thought. Same goes for Rose & Holiday.

With Aldridge and Green having player options for 2018, I'd expect them both to opt out to sign bigger long-term deals (elsewhere). That means next offseason would be a better opportunity to build around Kawhi w/ a bigtime free agent (or two)... Cousins/George/Westbrook?

So another ho-hum 50+ win season in 2017-18 w/ a 2nd or 3rd round playoff exit... A "down" year.
 
no way pau was ever going to leave that money on the table. if he continues after next year his per year is going way down unless a detroit throws crazy money to get vet leadership and that can be had for less that his 18 per. pretty sure he does not have a no trade clause so if the spurs said "we'll trade you if you opt in" he might choose to pick where he plays but pop loves his vets. often to a fault.

in addition to hanga they have miliutinov sp? as a potential big. agree they'll bring in another pg until parker comes back.
 
RJKarl said:
It's not that hard to get CP3 if they can trade Pau. They are $6M under now-add $10M by doing a waive and stretch on Parker and trade Pau's $16M+. This gives them $32M for CP3. It would also allow them to re-sign Simmons.
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Well, that would certainly be good.
 
RChildress107 said:
That's fair but would make all those examples a hard no which seems weird. I guess I view generations as "did your prime's overlap significantly" with the understanding that truly great players will overlap with different generations.

I guess it might be more accurate to view Paul, and to a lesser extent Parker, as a bridge between Kidd and Nash and Steph/Westbrook/Harden.

CP3, like Lebron, is tough to assign to a generation since they both entered the league at a relative down point and have both been in their prime (minus a year and a half post injury for Paul) for a decade.
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All that's fair. But then you're asking if Paul's prime which is over overlaps with three players entering their primes.
 
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