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Trump to expand Hobby Lobby to "moral convictions"

RJKarl

RJKarl

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It was only a matter of time until someone tried to wildly expand the insane Hobby Lobby Decision to include "moral convictions". This could cost millions women healthcare options and then be expanded to men's health as well.

Hobby Lobby is one of the worst decisions in decades and could now cost millions of Americans access to necessary healthcare.

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-birth-control-moral-671ef4523bdc

The only good news is that it could directly to single payer in a much quicker time frame.
 
The RULING allows companies not to pay for any medicines or coverage they find are against their "closely held religious beliefs".
 
Why do you believe a female has claim on the company's money for her contraceptive coverage?

I suppose this refusal to want to pay for someone's pills puts us in unsavory company.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/06/...-who-oppose-birth-control-mandate-are-taliban

On "The View" on Thursday, the panel discussed the Trump administration’s plan to reverse the ObamaCare requirement that employers provide their employees with health insurance that covers birth control.

Co-hosts Joy Behar and Whoopi Goldberg agreed that those who disagree with the contraception mandate for religious reasons are just like the Taliban.

"How is it different from the Taliban?" Behar wondered. "I’d like to know."
 
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Wouldn't an employer benefit from providing contraception so they don't have to deal with all of their female employees exploiting maternity leave like 2&2 does?
 
riscdeac said:
Joy and whoopies parents needed to use contraception but wasn't paid for in those days.
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That's just plain mean-spirited and evil. Would it be OK to say this about your parents, because we disagree with you?

Your statement is a textbook example of being un-American.
 
ONW said:
Wouldn't an employer benefit from providing contraception so they don't have to deal with all of their female employees exploiting maternity leave like 2&2 does?
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Yeah but you shouldn't need it at all since you shouldn't have sex until married and ready to breed. Two parent households and such.
 
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If a woman goes to a doctor seeking a script for a drug, is that not health care?

If a woman negotiates and accepts an employment agreement that includes things like salary, vacation, profit sharing, and health insurance - is it unreasonable that she "has claim on the company's money" for the health care her provider prescribes?

Fascinating argument
 
Do we really need to go through and find a bunch of bullshit the plans would cover like viagra and hair transplants?

The view is right, republicans are as bad as the taliban if they're only willing to defend terrible policy with religious beliefs
 
The company does not provide health care, it provides money for health insurance so the employee can obtain health care.
 
riscdeac said:
Nobody has claim on the company's money for the healthcare the company provides. I think he/she meant the company chooses to provide selected healthcare plans. Take it or leave it.

If I go to my doctor seeking a prescription for retin A which is for acne, I am NOT covered because I'm 59 years old (today) and RetinA causes skin to peel which over time reduces wrinkles. It is considered cosmetic.

If I want hormone replacement therepary (youth dew) there better be a medical reason I need those hormones or they are not paid for.

If I am 30 years old and want a prescription so I won't get pregnant, why is that medically neccesary and covered?

Abortions are elective surgical procedures. How many elective surgical procedures are covered for inconvenience? Why is it medically necessary to have an abortion? I want a face lift. I'm too fat and it is ruining my life. Gastric bypass, liposuction? Not covered. Dental work? Teeth rotting which can cause harmful bacteria to enter ones body and kill them. How many have good dental coverage? That's healthcare and it's not covered unless you prefer wooden teeth.

Abortion and birth control are NOT healthcare. When you become pregnant you are covered for your healthcare from day 1 till birth. That's healthcare.
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This is fascinating. So a couple decides that two kids is enough, so the woman goes to her doctor and says that she would like to go on the pill because condoms and foam and sponges and all the drug-store contraception is uncomfortable to her, she should at that point receive no more medical coverage through her company-provided plan and pay for any appointments, testing, and prescriptions out-of-pocket surrounding her choice to use the pill? What about having her tubes tied, out-of-pocket for that too?

You feel this from a moral perspective, financial, logical? From where in your life experience is this opinion drawn?
 
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riscdeac said:
Nobody has claim on the company's money for the healthcare the company provides. I think he/she meant the company chooses to provide selected healthcare plans. Take it or leave it.

If I go to my doctor seeking a prescription for retin A which is for acne, I am NOT covered because I'm 59 years old (today) and RetinA causes skin to peel which over time reduces wrinkles. It is considered cosmetic.

If I want hormone replacement therepary (youth dew) there better be a medical reason I need those hormones or they are not paid for.

If I am 30 years old and want a prescription so I won't get pregnant, why is that medically neccesary and covered?

Abortions are elective surgical procedures. How many elective surgical procedures are covered for inconvenience? Why is it medically necessary to have an abortion? I want a face lift. I'm too fat and it is ruining my life. Gastric bypass, liposuction? Not covered. Dental work? Teeth rotting which can cause harmful bacteria to enter ones body and kill them. How many have good dental coverage? That's healthcare and it's not covered unless you prefer wooden teeth.

Abortion and birth control are NOT healthcare. When you become pregnant you are covered for your healthcare from day 1 till birth. That's healthcare.
Click to expand...

Of all prescriptions that a company should cover for women employees of childbearing age, contraceptives are the most cost-effective. A pregnant woman costs them many times what a non-pregnant one does. Her prenatal expenses alone are much greater than a decade of contraceptives. A pregnant woman is also likely to miss some work. This costs the employer. After giving birth, the woman is likely take a maternity/family leave. This costs productivity and for the cost of her replacement.

The bigger your company, the more they will save. Of all healthcare costs for women employees, the one that returns the most to employers is contraceptives. It's very likely not even close.
 
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As usual, RISC doesn't get the subject matter she is discussing past what Faux News and other than what the RW talking heads tell her to believe. Contraceptives are a tiny, tiny problem of the Hobby Lobby ruling and what Trump put in his Executive Order.

Under HL, if a privately owned company's owner has "closely held religious beliefs", they can deny any or all medical coverage. Under the HL ruling, the president of a company could say he/she is a Christian Scientist. It's their belief that if you are meant to get well God will make you healthy again. Thus, it's against their morals to provide any healthcare to employees. This is perfectly within the parameters of the HL decision.

In dozens of states, you can be fired for being gay. In those states, if an employer says being gay is in opposition to his closely held beliefs, he can deny insurance to gay workers under HL and certainly under Trump's new EO.

Risc, if your son decides to live with his girlfriend, under HL and Trump's EO, the owner of his company could say that he won't any employee who is "living in sin".

These are only a small group of examples of why HL and Trump's EO are harmful to America.
 
riscdeac said:
Nobody has claim on the company's money for the healthcare the company provides. I think he/she meant the company chooses to provide selected healthcare plans. Take it or leave it.

If I go to my doctor seeking a prescription for retin A which is for acne, I am NOT covered because I'm 59 years old (today) and RetinA causes skin to peel which over time reduces wrinkles. It is considered cosmetic.

If I want hormone replacement therepary (youth dew) there better be a medical reason I need those hormones or they are not paid for.

If I am 30 years old and want a prescription so I won't get pregnant, why is that medically neccesary and covered?

Abortions are elective surgical procedures. How many elective surgical procedures are covered for inconvenience? Why is it medically necessary to have an abortion? I want a face lift. I'm too fat and it is ruining my life. Gastric bypass, liposuction? Not covered. Dental work? Teeth rotting which can cause harmful bacteria to enter ones body and kill them. How many have good dental coverage? That's healthcare and it's not covered unless you prefer wooden teeth.

Abortion and birth control are NOT healthcare. When you become pregnant you are covered for your healthcare from day 1 till birth. That's healthcare.
Click to expand...


You don't consider an abortion, a surgical procedure performed by a Dr., healthcare? You don't consider a drug you need a prescription from a healthcare provider to receive healthcare? If you have complications during your pregnancy and need an abortion, is that "elective surgery" or healthcare? Honest questions.
 
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riscdeac said:
Karllllll,

I said way back I am not going to comment on the can of worms moral restriction would open up. I said that right off the bat. I can only imagine and I might be willing to say it will set a dangerous precedent.

In the instance you mentioned above, denying life saving medical treatment is a crime. I agree this new law may lead to a dangerous path.

However, in my eyes birth control is not healthcare when it comes to preventing pregnancy. Simple. I don't want to get pregnant, you pay.

If a woman's menstrial cycle is problematic, pay. If there is a hormone deficiency, pay. If I have aides and risk infecting others, pay.
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Are inoculations, vaccines, Mammograms, annual Gyno exams, or a Colonoscopy not healthcare because they to are preventative?
 
Lol

Who/what exactly does the idea that birth control should not be covered protect/benefit? Certainly not the employee. Certainly not the employer or the insurance company, a pregnancy and child are quite a bit more costly for them than the birth control coverage.

So who/what?
 
riscdeac said:
The view is a joke. All republicans don't want to push their religious or moral beliefs on everyone. When women's rights advocates keep pushing the limits it turns women off. Lots of women. Not just old bags like me.

Abortion is legal unfortunately. I can go to a clinic a get an abortion for a few hundred bucks. Low income women can get one for free. There is aisle 9 in the drug store. People who can afford the pill or an IUD can pay.

There are people who firmly believe they are paying ending life through their premiums. Frankly I don't want to pay for partial birth abortion at 6 months. I don't want to pay for a baby who is left to die outside of the womb. That is NOT FAKE NEWS THATS REALITY.

I don't like saying personal stuff but could you imagine if, when you look at babycaptainia in her sweet little eyes?

no captain we don't have to go through viagra and whatever else is out there.

One other comment. There are only so many birth control pills. Low-Orval should be on the shelves. No reason for an RX. Wonder why?
Click to expand...

That includes babies carried to term, right?
 
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