• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Supreme Court to rule on baker refusing to make cake for gay couple

I feel the importance lies more with the religious freedom folks than the LGBTQ community.

Yeah OK. They'll realize how important it is when the tow truck driver claims religious liberty as a reason not to tow their car. This isn't just about cakes.
 
What would make a decision in favor of the baker even worse would be if Kennedy retired. We would have a radically RW Court. Things like voter suppression laws and general religious freedom acts could get passed and turn back civil rights dramatically.
 
Well it sounds like the SCOTUS will assess and make a ruling on this matter, one that appears to not be simple, nor cut and dry in the least. I look forward to that ruling.

I feel like there are several layers to this controversy. No matter how they slice it, there ruling is sure to get a rise out of many.
 
If I may be stereotypical for a second, if a gay couple asks you to make their wedding cake, take the damn complement and make them a cake.
 
I think the hidden story in this is that wedding cake bakers think too highly of themselves. It's a cake. You're not being commissioned to paint the Sistine Chapel.

You are wrong, sir. Cake is art.
 
This is the inevitable outcome of the insane Hobby Lobby ruling.

There's absolutely no difference between denying to serve a gay couple and not serving a black person or interracial couple. During my lifetime. The Bible was used to justify Jim Crow. It was used to justify "white" and "colored" water fountains and bathrooms.

This should be an easy 9-0 vote against the baker. But it's possible this bigot could win. Yes, you are a bigot if you refuse to serve someone because of who they are.

Not only is it possible the baker will win. It is fairly likely he will win.

To me it would be a clear violation of law if the baker were, for instance, to refuse to serve gay people at all. If he put a big sign on his door that said we will not serve gay people I don't think that would be allowed even though the civil rights act doesn't technically protect sexual orientation. Here the baker is refusing to make a custom cake for a gay wedding. He isn't discriminating against gay people generally. He is refusing to bake a cake customized to celebrate two gay people getting married. Would you, for instance, require a Jewish baker to bake a cake for a mosque that wanted to hold a religious ceremony celebrating a verse in the Koran that proclaims Jews should be harmed? The only people being impacted by the choice of the baker are Muslims. But that does not mean the baker would refuse to provide service to Muslims at all - just that he would not make that particular customized cake.

There is one interesting precedent from many years ago where a person who ran a wedding chapel refused to personally perform wedding ceremonies for mixed race couples on religious grounds. He would allow other clergy to use his facility and perform such ceremonies. But he personally refused to participate. He was rung up on charges for refusing to perform a ceremony. He won.

This particular case is, admittedly, different in several ways from that case. But that case highlights how this case is not cut and dry.
 
the bakers were dumb, if they really did not want to bake a cake for a homosexual couple, they should still have taken the order, baked the cake, and arranged for the deliverer "accidentally" to trip on his way through the door ;)
 
I actually, strangely, think there's a difference between selling a cake to someone in a store and making one for their wedding. I'm against someone preventing the former, not as much the latter.

I think this is going to be the line of logic for the baker as well. It isn't that he's refusing service to all gay people. He simply refuses to promote gay marriage in the performance of his job on religious grounds.
 
the bakers were dumb, if they really did not want to bake a cake for a homosexual couple, they should still have taken the order, baked the cake, and arranged for the deliverer "accidentally" to trip on his way through the door ;)

Oh man! Good one! That would have really showed them!
 
Not only is it possible the baker will win. It is fairly likely he will win.

To me it would be a clear violation of law if the baker were, for instance, to refuse to serve gay people at all. If he put a big sign on his door that said we will not serve gay people I don't think that would be allowed even though the civil rights act doesn't technically protect sexual orientation. Here the baker is refusing to make a custom cake for a gay wedding. He isn't discriminating against gay people generally. He is refusing to bake a cake customized to celebrate two gay people getting married. Would you, for instance, require a Jewish baker to bake a cake for a mosque that wanted to hold a religious ceremony celebrating a verse in the Koran that proclaims Jews should be harmed? The only people being impacted by the choice of the baker are Muslims. But that does not mean the baker would refuse to provide service to Muslims at all - just that he would not make that particular customized cake.

There is one interesting precedent from many years ago where a person who ran a wedding chapel refused to personally perform wedding ceremonies for mixed race couples on religious grounds. He would allow other clergy to use his facility and perform such ceremonies. But he personally refused to participate. He was rung up on charges for refusing to perform a ceremony. He won.

This particular case is, admittedly, different in several ways from that case. But that case highlights how this case is not cut and dry.

Totally absurd analogy. The gay couple is not trying to incite violence against the baker. Your position is totally preposterous.

The person who refused to perform the wedding ceremony for the interracial couple should have lost his license.
 
I think this is going to be the line of logic for the baker as well. It isn't that he's refusing service to all gay people. He simply refuses to promote gay marriage in the performance of his job on religious grounds.

Making the cake "promotes gay marriage?"
 
I think this is going to be the line of logic for the baker as well. It isn't that he's refusing service to all gay people. He simply refuses to promote gay marriage in the performance of his job on religious grounds.

Then I guess a Muslim owned grocery store doesn't have to let Evangelical Christians shop there due to his faith. After all, other Christians would be welcome.

DeacMan and others are for reinstituting legalized discrimination. Nice.
 
Totally absurd analogy. The gay couple is not trying to incite violence against the baker. Your position is totally preposterous.

The person who refused to perform the wedding ceremony for the interracial couple should have lost his license.

I could come up with loads of examples RJ. The principle broader still stands and is the reason this case will not be easy to decide..

Not only did the person who refused to perform that service win, that case was tossed out in a nano-second and the prosecutor was lambasted. No doubt the refusal to perform the service is not in line with mainstream society. But legally that case was very easy to decide.
 
I could come up with loads of examples RJ. The principle broader still stands and is the reason this case will not be easy to decide..

Not only did the person who refused to perform that service win, that case was tossed out in a nano-second and the prosecutor was lambasted. No doubt the refusal to perform the service is not in line with mainstream society. But legally that case was very easy to decide.

I am fairly certain Trump is causing rjk to lose what's left of his mind
 
Back
Top