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The Official John Collins ROY Watch thread

It's just an old person argument. Even Manning had to have advised him that he should go pro and he had more to gain by JC staying than anyone.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
That doesn't make any sense. He is what, 20 years old now ... assuming he stayed this year and entered the NBA at 21, do you think he would be a better defensive player at 21 having played an additional year of college ball (and the accompanying classes, etc.) than he will be at 21 having done nothing but practiced and played defense with an NBA team for an entire season? Push it out to 22 years old with two more years of college versus two years of NBA practices and games and it becomes even more ridiculous.
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So TD was the same player after 2 years at Wake as he was after 4? The extra 2 years made no substantial difference in his rookie season? That's what I'm talking about, being ready to play at a high level from day 1. More pt under DM would have made JC a more complete player as a rookie, there would have been less of a learning curve. Thus, he would be a greater contributer with more playing time as a rookie.
 
mebanedeac said:
When TD arrived in the NBA he was already an excellent defender and rebounder because he had learned how to get in proper defensive and rebounding position from 4 years in the ACC. JC is not prepared to defend largely due to insufficient experience. Staying at Wake would not have resulted in substantially greater weath, but he would have entered the league a better all round player.
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Wait a minute, is the argument that JC would have been a better NBA defender if he had spent an additional year not playing in the NBA? You're talking as if he won't learn anything over the course of a year in the NBA.
 
mebanedeac said:
So TD was the same player after 2 years at Wake as he was after 4? The extra 2 years made no substantial difference in his rookie season? That's what I'm talking about, being ready to play at a high level from day 1. More pt under DM would have made JC a more complete player as a rookie, there would have been less of a learning curve. Thus, he would be a greater contributer with more playing time as a rookie.
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He got picked by a team that is set up for him to get a ton of PT. That's not guaranteed if he returns.
 
RJKarl said:
He got picked by a team that is set up for him to get a ton of PT. That's not guaranteed if he returns.
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JC was a first round pick and is a guaranteed millionaire. No reason to second guess his decision to head to the League.

That said, there is every reason to believe that if JC was in the 2018 draft, he would go higher, which typically means he would be drafted by a bad team that would find him minutes. Also note that an elite NBA team (Celtics) drafted Jason Tatum this past year, and he is getting plenty of run.

Other than possibly Golden State, Cleveland, Houston and the Spurs, JC would get plenty of minutes with any other NBA team this year.
 
Pilchard said:
JC was a first round pick and is a guaranteed millionaire. No reason to second guess his decision to head to the League.

That said, there is every reason to believe that if JC was in the 2018 draft, he would go higher, which typically means he would be drafted by a bad team that would find him minutes. Also note that an elite NBA team (Celtics) drafted Jason Tatum this past year, and he is getting plenty of run.

Other than possibly Golden State, Cleveland, Houston and the Spurs, JC would get plenty of minutes with any other NBA team this year.
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Barring injury JC wouldn't get many minutes in NO, Philly. With MN, IN, LAC, Utah, OKC, he'd likely not get over 15 mpg.
 
Tim Duncan was a third team AP All-American after his sophomore year. Not exactly throwing JC under the bus by saying that he and Duncan were in different positions.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Tim Duncan was a third team AP All-American after his sophomore year. Not exactly throwing JC under the bus by saying that he and Duncan were in different positions.
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Also, Jerry West said he would have picked Tim #1 after Tim's soph year.
 
mebanedeac said:
So TD was the same player after 2 years at Wake as he was after 4? The extra 2 years made no substantial difference in his rookie season? That's what I'm talking about, being ready to play at a high level from day 1. More pt under DM would have made JC a more complete player as a rookie, there would have been less of a learning curve. Thus, he would be a greater contributer with more playing time as a rookie.
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Sure he was and those 2 years improved him a lot, but that is a dumb argument, you don't compare the 20 year old player to the 22 year old player in either case, you have to compare apples to apples. TD entered the NBA in 1997. So the question is was he a better player in 1997 having played 4 years of college ball than he would have been in 1997 having played 2 years of college ball and 2 years of NBA ball? You don't compare the 1995 version of TD as the NBA version to the 1997 version of TD as the NBA version, you have to compare 1997 to 1997.

The same goes for JC. You don't compare the 2017 version of JC to the 2019 version of JC, you have to compare 2019 to 2019.
 
Is an old really saying a dude who's gonna be ROY shouldn't have come out so soon?
 
JC #1 in rookie PER at 25.44. #30th in the league. Next best Rookie is Ben Simmons at 19.78 #76
 
Through four games JC's odds on Sportsbook increased from +4000 to +5000. Predominantly based on Simmons sitting at -280 now.
 
Do they have an over/under on how many games Simmons plays before he is done for the year with an injury? I would put it at about 46.
 
In that case you should short that -280 and jump on board another train. JC at +5000 seems pretty good value after a few games.
 
Seems like most of the guys JC is behind are injury risks.
 
mebanedeac said:
When TD arrived in the NBA he was already an excellent defender and rebounder because he had learned how to get in proper defensive and rebounding position from 4 years in the ACC. JC is not prepared to defend largely due to insufficient experience. Staying at Wake would not have resulted in substantially greater weath, but he would have entered the league a better all round player.
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Tim Duncan was an excellent defender and rebounder when he entered the league because he's Tim fucking Duncan.
 
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