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College basketball bribery scandal

That doesn’t explain why the NBA would circumvent the NCAA.
 
Love how spun up Ph gets about allowing adults that want to play in the NBA to simply pursue that opportunity.

If Zion Williamson would've been a top 5 pick last year, why force him to attend Duke for 8 months only to have him withdraw from school next April, while risking potential injury that could adversely impact his ability to earn life changing money?

For a handful of elite prospects a year, it's ridiculous to force them to pretend to be college students for a portion of the year; just to delay their ability to enter in the NBA draft. It makes NCAA basketball look like a farce. It creates an overwhelming incentive for the recruiting system to become a bidding war as these players only see themselves as professional basketball players, it penalizes schools that play by the rules or that only sign kids that actually plan to graduate and it prevents kids that should be starting their professional careers from doing that. Makes no sense why a great HS baseball player can start his pro career after HS, but a pro basketball player cannot. Pure discrimination.
 
Pilchard said:
Love how spun up Ph gets about allowing adults that want to play in the NBA to simply pursue that opportunity.

If Zion Williamson would've been a top 5 pick last year, why force him to attend Duke for 8 months only to have him withdraw from school next April, while risking potential injury that could adversely impact his ability to earn life changing money?

For a handful of elite prospects a year, it's ridiculous to force them to pretend to be college students for a portion of the year; just to delay their ability to enter in the NBA draft. It makes NCAA basketball look like a farce. It creates an overwhelming incentive for the recruiting system to become a bidding war as these players only see themselves as professional basketball players, it penalizes schools that play by the rules or that only sign kids that actually plan to graduate and it prevents kids that should be starting their professional careers from doing that. Makes no sense why a great HS baseball player can start his pro career after HS, but a pro basketball player cannot. Pure discrimination.
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I don’t think Ph is getting spun up about that here. That’s almost certain to change within the next 2-4 years.
 
What a dumb post.

First of all, you and others are talking about changing rules that may possibly negatively impact a handful of players that will open the floodgates to dozens of other players to fail.

We already had a system in his kids went straight from HS to college. It largely failed so the NBA changed it. It’s a simple argument. Nobody can articulate why the old system would be better now than it was back then. It’s not some huge injustice if Zion Williamson plays college ball for one year. And it wouldn’t stop the flow of illicit money into college hoops if the next Zion goes to the NBA. And it won’t hurt Duke or make Wake better either.

The obsession with the baseball system is ridiculous. That system is based on a tradition of minor league baseball and the fact college baseball is a niche sport.
 
PhDeac said:
What a dumb post.

First of all, you and others are talking about changing rules that may possibly negatively impact a handful of players that will open the floodgates to dozens of other players to fail.

We already had a system in his kids went straight from HS to college. It largely failed so the NBA changed it. It’s a simple argument. Nobody can articulate why the old system would be better now than it was back then. It’s not some huge injustice if Zion Williamson plays college ball for one year. And it wouldn’t stop the flow of illicit money into college hoops if the next Zion goes to the NBA. And it won’t hurt Duke or make Wake better either.

The obsession with the baseball system is ridiculous. That system is based on a tradition of minor league baseball and the fact college baseball is a niche sport.
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In addition to being written in RJKarlese, this post and argument are just not good. As Pilch explained quite well, the current system creates an environment where the top players demand money and improper benefits. They talk with their friends, who are not nearly as good, and now the friends think they are also owed money. It's currently much worse than it was when kids were allowed to go directly to the NBA. Additionally, there is now an NBA developmental league that can handle more of the kids that want to go pro out of high school.
 
PhDeac said:
What a dumb post.

First of all, you and others are talking about changing rules that may possibly negatively impact a handful of players that will open the floodgates to dozens of other players to fail.

We already had a system in his kids went straight from HS to college. It largely failed so the NBA changed it. It’s a simple argument. Nobody can articulate why the old system would be better now than it was back then. It’s not some huge injustice if Zion Williamson plays college ball for one year. And it wouldn’t stop the flow of illicit money into college hoops if the next Zion goes to the NBA. And it won’t hurt Duke or make Wake better either.

The obsession with the baseball system is ridiculous. That system is based on a tradition of minor league baseball and the fact college baseball is a niche sport.
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how, exactly, did the old system fail?

answer: it didn't. But NBA teams got tired of sometimes guessing wrong re: which high schoolers were ready for the NBA, and which ones needed babysitters, so they pushed their evaluation periods back a year
 
RChildress107 said:
I don’t think Ph is getting spun up about that here. That’s almost certain to change within the next 2-4 years.
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PhDeac said:
What a dumb post.

First of all, you and others are talking about changing rules that may possibly negatively impact a handful of players that will open the floodgates to dozens of other players to fail.

We already had a system in his kids went straight from HS to college. It largely failed so the NBA changed it. It’s a simple argument. Nobody can articulate why the old system would be better now than it was back then. It’s not some huge injustice if Zion Williamson plays college ball for one year. And it wouldn’t stop the flow of illicit money into college hoops if the next Zion goes to the NBA. And it won’t hurt Duke or make Wake better either.

The obsession with the baseball system is ridiculous. That system is based on a tradition of minor league baseball and the fact college baseball is a niche sport.
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I stand corrected.
 
All of the following are true:

1. Some 18 year olds are ready to play in the NBA but are not allowed to.

2. A lot of 18-22 year olds generate money by playing basketball, very few of them are paid.

3. NBA owners suck at properly valuing 18 year olds.

4. Even if they didn’t, the NBA’s current structure would prevent them from paying market value for players in #2.


#3 caused #1, but even if teams haven’t gotten better at evaluating 18 year olds (they have), the cost/benefit analysis has changed since 2005.

There are a lot of solutions to #2, changing #4 could be one of them.
 
thatguy2016 said:
how, exactly, did the old system fail?

answer: it didn't. But NBA teams got tired of sometimes guessing wrong re: which high schoolers were ready for the NBA, and which ones needed babysitters, so they pushed their evaluation periods back a year
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That’s a failure. That’s a huge failure. Several kids never had college eligibility because someone convinced them to go pro. That’s a big problem.

I haven’t seen anyone address how restoring that system won’t lead to the same problems.

Also, people keep saying that one and done created a system in which colleges or intermediaries pay players. Players got played under the old system too.

People seem to forget college basketball recruiting is about getting the best players possible. If there is incentive to pay players to go to a certain college now, there will still be an incentive if most of the top 20 prospects go pro. Creighton is involved in this and it’s not because they were recruiting Zion Williamson.
 
PhDeac said:
That’s a failure. That’s a huge failure. Several kids never had college eligibility because someone convinced them to go pro. That’s a big problem.

I haven’t seen anyone address how restoring that system won’t lead to the same problems.

Also, people keep saying that one and done created a system in which colleges or intermediaries pay players. Players got played under the old system too.

People seem to forget college basketball recruiting is about getting the best players possible. If there is incentive to pay players to go to a certain college now, there will still be an incentive if most of the top 20 prospects go pro. Creighton is involved in this and it’s not because they were recruiting Zion Williamson.
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I think most would agree with that. It’s an NCAA specific problem though, not an NBA one.
 
Kwame Brown was a "failure" of the Washington Wizards organization. He still made $64 million in the NBA as a "bust" relative to expectations - he's fine.

a pretty high percentage of those kids that never had college eligibility earned tens of millions of dollars in the NBA.
 
PhDeac said:
Creighton is involved in this and it’s not because they were recruiting Zion Williamson.
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They were recruiting a top 15 player who made it clear he wanted to be paid, and they were competing with Louisville and Arizona.
 
PhDeac said:
That’s a failure. That’s a huge failure. Several kids never had college eligibility because someone convinced them to go pro. That’s a big problem.
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I strongly disagree. They kids will have the freedom to choose whichever option they think makes the most sense for them. Those that choose the pro route will be paid. They’ll also be able to go to college in the future if they want, they just won’t be able to play college ball. Plus, if college ball is exploiting kids as some claim (which is another point I disagree with), then why would it be an issue if they can’t play in college?
 
PhDeac said:
I haven’t seen anyone address how restoring that system won’t lead to the same problems.
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1) There are more problems now than there used to be, so it will be good to go back to the old system, and 2) there is now a viable NBA developmental league option.
 
Rafi said:
I strongly disagree. They kids will have the freedom to choose whichever option they think makes the most sense for them. Those that choose the pro route will be paid. They’ll also be able to go to college in the future if they want, they just won’t be able to play college ball. Plus, if college ball is exploiting kids as some claim (which is another point I disagree with), then why would it be an issue if they can’t play in college?
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Not the ones who don't get drafted or don't make a roster.
 
Serious question:

How is it any worse when a HS kid makes a bad decision about the NBA than when a college player does the same thing?

Fictional HS player and Doral Moore both end up in the same place, right?

Or am I wrong?
 
DeacsATS said:
Serious question:

How is it any worse when a HS kid makes a bad decision about the NBA than when a college player does the same thing?

Fictional HS player and Doral Moore both end up in the same place, right?

Or am I wrong?
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In general, I agree with you completely. One counter argument might be that there are now “lifetime scholarships” so if Doral has one (I don’t know if he did) then he can return to Wake later to finish his degree (and he already has 3 years under his belt).
 
PhDeac said:
Not the ones who don't get drafted or don't make a roster.
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They can play overseas. If you can’t, then high level college ball wouldn’t have been an option anyways.
 
DeacsATS said:
Serious question:

How is it any worse when a HS kid makes a bad decision about the NBA than when a college player does the same thing?

Fictional HS player and Doral Moore both end up in the same place, right?

Or am I wrong?
Click to expand...

The HS kid lost his chance. The college player didn't.

From the NBA perspective, GMs are likely to overrate the potential of the HS kid.
 
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