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  1. #101

  2. #102
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever RJKarl's Avatar
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    If they keep this and state taxes are not deductible and Republicans in CA, NY, CT, PA, NJ, IL, OH vote for it, I wonder how many will lose their jobs for raising the taxes of millions of their constituents.

  3. #103
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  4. #104
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    Robert Reich shared this article on Facebook with the following comments:
    Don’t you love how these former supply-side conservative economists are now coming out to say they were dead wrong – that the Reagan and Bush tax cuts on the rich DIDN’T spur growth and DIDN’T pay for themselves? And that the Clinton tax increase actually spurred growth? And that Trump is wrong -- that his tax cuts on the rich WON'T spur growth?
    The record is now clear: When Ronald Reagan cut taxes on the wealthy in 1981, the national debt was 25 percent of the Gross Domestic Product. By the time he left office, it was 40 percent.
    When Bill Clinton entered office and raised the top personal tax rate in 1993, the national debt was 48 percent of GDP. By the time Clinton left office, it was down to 30 percent of GDP.
    When George W. Bush cut taxes on the wealthy in 2001 and then again in 2003, the national debt was 35 percent of GDP. By the time Bush left office, it was 48 percent of GDP. And the economy tanked.
    The national debt is now 77 percent of GDP. If nothing at all happens, and the boomers collect their Social Security and Medicare, it will be 91 percent of GDP a decade from now.
    But if the Trump-Republican tax cuts on the wealthy are enacted, it will balloon to at least 100 percent of GDP.
    Supply-side, trickle-down economics is and has always been a cruel hoax.
    What do you think?

    Here's a good comment someone posted in response:

    I was a republican for a significant portion of my life. About a decade ago, someone had told me that Reagan and the Bushes ran up the debt and it really pissed me off. I decided I would look up the data and put together the graph below and of course I was surprised by what I found. I came to the stunning realization that supply side trickle down was a huge fraud that I fell for hook, line and sinker. It's hard to admit falling for such BS, but a little humility goes a long ways. Since then I have stopped watching Fox noise and and listening to Rushie boy. I now go after many of my right-wing friends on social media. But the stunning truth is that Supply Side trickle down economic policies are a huge fraud on the middle class and if one votes republican, you might as well just shoot yourself in the foot.




  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Robert Reich shared this article on Facebook with the following comments:

    By the time Bush left office, it was 48 percent of GDP. And the economy tanked.
    The national debt is now 77 percent of GDP.
    So he conveniently left out what happened between Bush leaving office and now, when it rose almost 30% in 8 years. Was that a trickle-down President's terms? So if the theory is that trickle down raises the debt, why didn't the stimuli and Obamacare and Obama's tax relief rollbacks/sunsets decrease or at least maintain the debt ratio, instead of skyrocketing it? Or is the answer that Obama was simply that atrocious?

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2&2 Slider To Leyritz View Post
    So he conveniently left out what happened between Bush leaving office and now, when it rose almost 30% in 8 years. Was that a trickle-down President's terms? So if the theory is that trickle down raises the debt, why didn't the stimuli and Obamacare and Obama's tax relief rollbacks/sunsets decrease or at least maintain the debt ratio, instead of skyrocketing it? Or is the answer that Obama was simply that atrocious?
    He didn't leave it out. He said, "And the economy tanked."

  7. #107
    Robert O'Kelley
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Gossett Jr View Post
    Economic advisor Gary Cohn told reporters on Thursday that a typical four-person American family bringing in $100,000 a year would save $1,000 under the Republicans' proposed tax reform effort, which they could use to pay for a new car or a kitchen.

  8. #108
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever RJKarl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheCaptain View Post
    zero
    You don't think Republicans in collar districts that won by a few points would be impacted by raising the taxes of most their constituents after promising not to?

    Without question there are districts that it won't matter. But there are still some very close ones.

    By the way, can Gary Cohn get me one of those new cars for $1000?

  9. #109
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    no, i think by the time an election gets here they'll forget about it and be jerking it into their #MAGA hats because of other distractions.

  10. #110
    I love the smell of revisionist history in the morning...

    The Left conveniently forgets the 1981 Reagan tax cuts were a necessary and much needed offset to the Federal Reserve's policy of tightening and maintaining high interest rates in the late 70's and early 80's.

    As a result, the economic boom from 1983 - 1989 yielded economic expansion of 36% and inflation adjusted median family income increased by 12%. Oh yeah, and a measly 19 million net jobs were created.

    What were the numbers from the Obama "recovery" again?

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheCaptain View Post
    no, i think by the time an election gets here they'll forget about it and be jerking it into their #MAGA hats because of other distractions.
    "Oh noes, the blacks are exercising free speech!"

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Angus View Post
    I love the smell of revisionist history in the morning...

    The Left conveniently forgets the 1981 Reagan tax cuts were a necessary and much needed offset to the Federal Reserve's policy of tightening and maintaining high interest rates in the late 70's and early 80's.

    As a result, the economic boom from 1983 - 1989 yielded economic expansion of 36% and inflation adjusted median family income increased by 12%. Oh yeah, and a measly 19 million net jobs were created.

    What were the numbers from the Obama "recovery" again?
    Net 11.3 million jobs. The recovery from 2010 on yielded over 15 million jobs and 75 consecutive months of job growth.


    I guess Angus' revisionist history is like his own farts.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Deacon923 View Post
    it is way too early to do much analysis on this, it's an 8 page outline. But clearly it's going to explode the deficit, just like the Bush tax cuts. If they want to make it look even remotely revenue neutral, they're going to have to assume growth rates that are unheard of in a mature industrialized economy. Our taxation system is certainly a drag on the economy, but pretending that eliminating some deductions and changing some brackets is going to unleash 5 or 6% growth is a joke.

    What is actually going to happen is a recession. The housing markets are at all time peaks, stocks are way overvalued, junk bonds and corporate leveraged debts are at levels higher than they were before 2007. The economic cycle is due for a correction, and correct it will, tax cuts or no. In fact, if this tax cut does create some additional frothiness in the financial markets, the inevitable contraction will probably be even worse. So if some version of this gets passed and cuts Federal tax receipts, it will be just in time for a recession to come along that will further cut government revenue. $20 trillion in debt? You ain't seen nothing yet.
    So you're saying I should put my IRA in bonds for a bit?

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by JuiceCrewAllStar View Post
    So you're saying I should put my IRA in bonds for a bit?
    Far be it from me to give investment advice. I'm not smart enough to time the market. The recession could start this fall, or it could be 2 years from now. But winter is coming. I would not recommend anyone buying a new house right now, though, as I think they're going to go on a big sale relatively soon.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by 2&2 Slider To Leyritz View Post
    So he conveniently left out what happened between Bush leaving office and now, when it rose almost 30% in 8 years. Was that a trickle-down President's terms? So if the theory is that trickle down raises the debt, why didn't the stimuli and Obamacare and Obama's tax relief rollbacks/sunsets decrease or at least maintain the debt ratio, instead of skyrocketing it? Or is the answer that Obama was simply that atrocious?
    that is extremely short sighted, when Obama took over Bush left his a mess. WoT, bank bail outs, high unemployment, Katrina cleanup and tax cuts to the rich. it made it impossible to not follow through with out the ARRA and the WoT.

    after his 8 years there was a bull market for 6 or 7 years. unemployment at lowest levels.

    not the best but a solid presidency

  16. #116
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever RJKarl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheCaptain View Post
    no, i think by the time an election gets here they'll forget about it and be jerking it into their #MAGA hats because of other distractions.
    It won't get passed until next year.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2&2 Slider To Leyritz View Post
    So then why keep it? It is a big topic for theoretical arguments with minimal logic behind it and minimal fiscal impact, that causes major heartburn and planning expense for people who likely will never need it but have to act like they will. It isn't worth the trouble of defending it, hence why plenty of states (NC included, thanks gridlock Obama and commielib Bev Perdue) got rid of it at the state level.
    Is it really that hard to guess whether you'll be worth $20 million or $8 million? And lets say you guess the latter and you're wrong, your kids only get $15 million, Who gives a shit?
    just drivin' round in John Voight's car

  18. #118
    I disagree with you
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    all i'm saying is: in a nation that elected donald trump president and 80% think he's doing a bang up job don't get your hopes up

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by warak View Post
    that is extremely short sighted, when Obama took over Bush left his a mess. WoT, bank bail outs, high unemployment, Katrina cleanup and tax cuts to the rich. it made it impossible to not follow through with out the ARRA and the WoT.

    after his 8 years there was a bull market for 6 or 7 years. unemployment at lowest levels.

    not the best but a solid presidency
    That's great. But no other external context was provided for any of the other eras referenced in Reich's comments that Ph quoted, it was simple ratios as compared to perceived tax policy. So Obama is the only one who gets excuses one way or another for why his term was the worst out of any of them?

  20. #120
    PM a mod to cement your internet status forever RJKarl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImTheCaptain View Post
    all i'm saying is: in a nation that elected donald trump president and 80% think he's doing a bang up job don't get your hopes up
    I'm not saying in general. I'm not even saying statewide in those states. I was targeted.

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