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Biggest Reform EVER passed thread

One might be that pedantic

One might also say that it's not really practical to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative because social welfare costs money, regardless of capital letters


it's possible to champion the rights of the lesser while trying to find more efficient ways of spending and reducing the use of tax dollars
 
That's what is so absurd about 75% of the arguments going on in general these days. People aren't even factoring practicality or cost into the equation. It's just visceral back and forths, and people are branching at the most fundamental levels. Even if we had a perfect economy with everyone employed and infinite money, people would still be disagreeing over many of the same issues we are now, because Trump has set fire to social issues to mask his fiscal agenda.
 
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Meh. Think when most people say they're fiscally conservative this bill is exactly what they mean.

I think this is true for Congressional Republicans, but not the public at large, and certainly not conservative economists.
 
As far as Congressional Republicans go they're charged with representing the political will of their electorate who voted them into office with a hefty majority not one year ago. Perhaps that's not the same thing as the public at large, and certainly I know this bill doesn't pass even the most basic scrutiny of economic theory, but I stand by the original point.

Moreover, I think time and time again we're learning the lesson of this election is actually that for struggling Americans it's not about solving their problems, it's about making sure the right people are getting fucked over. If they also continue to struggle it's same shit different Congress. If we build the wall and lock her up it'd be worth it.

and you believe that's what they're doing, huh?
 
As far as Congressional Republicans go they're charged with representing the political will of their electorate who voted them into office with a hefty majority not one year ago. Perhaps that's not the same thing as the public at large, and certainly I know this bill doesn't pass even the most basic scrutiny of economic theory, but I stand by the original point.

Moreover, I think time and time again we're learning the lesson of this election is actually that for struggling Americans it's not about solving their problems, it's about making sure the right people are getting fucked over. If they also continue to struggle it's same shit different Congress. If we build the wall and lock her up it'd be worth it.

Right, they don't do that though, at all, at least with economic policy.
 
I think this is true for Congressional Republicans, but not the public at large, and certainly not conservative economists.

Disagree on public at-large. I think it is indeed what fiscally conservative non-politicians want.
 
A very relevant book for this time.

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What df07 said. It represents their political will to the point they (largely) won't be primaried.

Basically I'm frustrated because I don't need this fucking tax break. I know plenty of people who work harder, have more responsibilities, and make less than me who do. And most of those people are voting for the assholes behind this bill.

This is certainly true. I guess what I mean is, if you polled the public explaining the content of this tax bill, but didn't tell them it was the GOP plan, it would be extremely unpopular, even among Republicans (except for the megawealthy Koch types). You are right that it won't cause any of them to be primaried, for lots of reasons.
 
What happens when the coal miners aren't hired back?

What happens in Western Pa when the steel factories aren't re-opened?
 
wrt people being (poorly) informed, the Pubs just will say shit like this is a "revenue neutral...or even positive" bill. And "how dare" anyone claim this benefits the rich over others. They've learned that it's effective to simply deny reality. And so we've ended up with the master denier in chief. Trump is the perfect modern Pub.
 
the contingent of GOP voters who are most harmed by tax reform are often people who rank economic issues low on their political priority list
 
This tweet storm is pretty good. Essentially that this tax bill (and some prior GOP tax plans) is so cartoonishly awful that when you describe it accurately, people don't believe you. "When GOP economic policy is accurately explained to voters, they simply cannot believe it's true." Which, intentional or not, works in their favor, because people just assume the source is biased, and the truth must be somewhere in the middle.


Good thing the media isn't trying to accurately explain the bill
 
I assume this increase in cash the middle class is going to see will be coming directly from the closing of the tax loopholes Trump has admitted to jumping through for decades?

If this were actually bad for Trump, as he has said several times, then why wouldn't he get on the stump and say "I have been exploiting broken tax laws for decades, and now I'm going to close those loops!"
 
I expect to hear some good sermons about tithing in the next year. Preachers gotta get that money.
 
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