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Thread: The New Socialists

  1. #1

    The New Socialists

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/o...e-in-2018.html

    The socialist argument against capitalism isnít that it makes us poor. Itís that it makes us unfree. When my well-being depends upon your whim, when the basic needs of life compel submission to the market and subjugation at work, we live not in freedom but in domination. Socialists want to end that domination: to establish freedom from rule by the boss, from the need to smile for the sake of a sale, from the obligation to sell for the sake of survival.
    I think the first sentence is wrong, but the rest is good.

  2. #2
    Arguably the biggest boundary todayís socialists are willing to cross is the two-party system. In their campaigns, the message is clear: Itís not enough to criticize Donald Trump or the Republicans; the Democrats are also complicit in the rot of American life. And here the socialism of our moment meets up with the deepest currents of the American past.

    Like the great transformative presidents, todayís socialist candidates reach beyond the parties to target a malignant social form: for Abraham Lincoln, it was the slavocracy; for Franklin Roosevelt, it was the economic royalists. The great realigners understood that any transformation of society requires a confrontation not just with the opposition but also with the political economy that underpins both parties. Thatís why realigners so often opt for a language that neither party speaks. For Lincoln in the 1850s, confronting the Whigs and the Democrats, that language was free labor. For leftists in the 2010s, confronting the Republicans and the Democrats, itís socialism.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by MHBDemon View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/o...e-in-2018.html



    I think the first sentence is wrong, but the rest is good.
    Why do you think the first sentence is wrong?
    We're going to be good again.

  4. #4
    I think that capitalism does make people poor and is a part of the argument. I don't know, just came off as kind of "privileged" i guess.

  5. #5
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    Yeah. I bet the author would agree that capitalism causes income and wealthy inequality which is the same thing.

  6. #6
    Dickie Hemric
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    The socialist, by contrast, believes that making things free makes people free.

  7. #7
    Says the poster who lives in a socialist country somewhere in eastern Europe

  8. #8
    Dickie Hemric
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    The socialist, by contrast, believes that making things free makes people free.
    let me spell it out for you lubie, taking responsibility for yourself makes you free

    getting things free makes you dependent, not free

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sailordeac View Post
    let me spell it out for you lubie, taking responsibility for yourself makes you free

    getting things free makes you dependent, not free
    Both systems make you dependent. Itís just dependent on who.

  10. #10
    A Young Go-Hard
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    Quote Originally Posted by sailordeac View Post
    let me spell it out for you lubie, taking responsibility for yourself makes you free

    getting things free makes you dependent, not free
    Says a man who presumably never had to choose between food and medicine. Being unaware of your personal advantages and opportunity doesnt make you any more "free" than a person who relies on government assistance.
    Draxx them sklounst

  11. #11
    I disagree with you
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    Freedom is an illusion you idiots

  12. #12
    This thread is off to a painful start.

  13. #13
    ďFreedom is not a quality of man, nor is it an ability, a capacity, a kind of being that somehow flares up in him. Anyone investigating man to discover freedom finds nothing of it. Why? because freedom is not a quality which can be revealed--it is not a possession, a presence, an object, nor is it a form of existence--but a relationship and nothing else. In truth, freedom is a relationship between two persons. Being free means "being free for the other," because the other has bound me to him. Only in relationship with the other am I free.Ē

  14. #14
    Dickie Hemric
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    Quote Originally Posted by myDeaconmyhand View Post
    Says a man who presumably never had to choose between food and medicine. Being unaware of your personal advantages and opportunity doesnt make you any more "free" than a person who relies on government assistance.
    Every assertion in MDMH's post is based on astounding ignorance and is profoundly mistaken.

  15. #15
    Dickie Hemric
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDeac View Post
    Both systems make you dependent. Itís just dependent on who.
    just to clarify Ph's post: taking responsibility for yourself makes you dependent on yourself

    getting things free makes you dependent on those from whom you are taking those free things

  16. #16
    Dickie Hemric
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newenglanddeac View Post
    This thread is off to a painful start.
    a trifle compared to the pain of socialism's results

  17. #17
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    The New Socialists

    Quote Originally Posted by sailordeac View Post
    just to clarify Ph's post: taking responsibility for yourself makes you dependent on yourself

    getting things free makes you dependent on those from whom you are taking those free things
    Capitalism limits your ability to take responsibility for yourself to the extent to which you can pay for it. How much you can afford depends on how much the wealthiest people in the system are willing to pay you. Thatís dependence.

  18. #18
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    Until man evolves to near perfection, the most successful societies will be combinations of capitalism and socialism. Without incentives, great discoveries are less likely.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by sailordeac View Post
    just to clarify Ph's post: taking responsibility for yourself makes you dependent on yourself

    getting things free makes you dependent on those from whom you are taking those free things
    Deep, man

  20. #20
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    See the article from The Economist I posted in the bullshit jobs thread on the Pit. People are tied to bullshit jobs that lack creativity and freedom and serve no purpose.

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