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Boy Scouts will admit girls

BSA already has venture and explorer scouts which are coed.

Some of the more conservative scout types branched off and formed Trail Life a few years ago. They're the ones that would be most likely to adamantly oppose mixing genders in scouting.

I don't think my experience as a scout would have been significantly different if we had girls in the troop. It's not as if these "male bonding" events actually occurred, at least not in my troop.
 
Can anyone provide a discrete example of how the Boy Scouts would be worse with girls in it?
 
ImTheCaptain said:
what's the matter with people who think that girls ruin everything?

maybe if we don't act like it's a big fucking deal (for no reason) that girls might participate in activities that were traditionally all-male, it won't be a big deal. kids don't know the difference until we tell them otherwise.

you guys get that, right?
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Please quote me where I said that I think that girls ruin everything. (My reply to Numbers was simply in response to his being a shithead.)

I certainly agree with you to a point. Co-ed organizations are fantastic. I belong to several of them. But for you or others to say that there is no place whatsoever for single-sex organizations or groups I think is naïve and misguided. The presence of members of the opposite sex can, and often does, drastically change the dynamic of a particular environment. That can be a positive, or it can be a negative, depending upon the nature of the environment. You get that, right? If you don't, then I'm not sure I can take seriously anything that you say with respect to this matter.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Can anyone provide a discrete example of how the Boy Scouts would be worse with girls in it?
Click to expand...

Worse is the wrong word. Different is a better word.

Many folks in Scouting used the all-male atmosphere to help boys deal with the aging and maturing process.

Anecdotally, there were several boys in our Troop who significantly altered their behavior for the better because of the social policing that the Boy Scouts provided.

It's different from Rec Soccer or other youth activities because you interact with other adolescents/young adults in two atypical settings: formal meetings and overnight campouts.

A lot of the very rough physical play would not be suited to female involvement. We straight up beat the living shit out of each other sometimes. This helped a lot of the kids normalize in ways that have benefited them to this day. We had one red-head kid who came into the troop that was a total sack of shit with no concept of how to be normal in the world. He attributes his experience in the Scouts for putting him on the path to get married and have a normal job.

Also, teenagers be fuckin'. Co-ed makes it harder for that to not happen, but as I said earlier, it seems like that's just logistics.

tl;dr - one thing that made Scouts awesome was the physicality of it, girls wouldn't be able to hang, so there's a fear of things being "toned down" for them to hang.
 
19deac92 said:
Please quote me where I said that I think that girls ruin everything. (My reply to Numbers was simply in response to his being a shithead.)

I certainly agree with you to a point. Co-ed organizations are fantastic. I belong to several of them. But for you or others to say that there is no place whatsoever for single-sex organizations or groups I think is naïve and misguided. The presence of members of the opposite sex can, and often does, drastically change the dynamic of a particular environment. That can be a positive, or it can be a negative, depending upon the nature of the environment. You get that, right? If you don't, then I'm not sure I can take seriously anything that you say with respect to this matter.
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of course it changes the dynamic. i thought the scouts were teaching inner strength and integrity, training future leaders.

or are you one of those people who thinks that women have a more-than-adequate shake when it comes to careers and leadership opportunities? how else are we going to train our kids to be better people.
 
Grabs Turds Bare said:
Worse is the wrong word. Different is a better word.

Many folks in Scouting used the all-male atmosphere to help boys deal with the aging and maturing process.

Anecdotally, there were several boys in our Troop who significantly altered their behavior for the better because of the social policing that the Boy Scouts provided.

It's different from Rec Soccer or other youth activities because you interact with other adolescents/young adults in two atypical settings: formal meetings and overnight campouts.

A lot of the very rough physical play would not be suited to female involvement. We straight up beat the living shit out of each other sometimes. This helped a lot of the kids normalize in ways that have benefited them to this day. We had one red-head kid who came into the troop that was a total sack of shit with no concept of how to be normal in the world. He attributes his experience in the Scouts for putting him on the path to get married and have a normal job.

Also, teenagers be fuckin'. Co-ed makes it harder for that to not happen, but as I said earlier, it seems like that's just logistics.

tl;dr - one thing that made Scouts awesome was the physicality of it, girls wouldn't be able to hang, so there's a fear of things being "toned down" for them to hang.
Click to expand...

so what? you're saying that a few girls wouldn't have allowed the boys to learn to stop being shitheads?

you guys are lowering your own expectations and then complaining about it
 
WFcatamount22 said:
Went to all boys boarding school, it was pretty gheyness. also this:

Joe Gibson, a former Scoutmaster in the St. Petersburg, Florida area, was convicted in June 1982.[36]
Lee Pontius, former Daytona Beach, Florida area Scoutmaster, and current Silver Beaver honoree, was convicted multiple times of molesting Boy Scouts, including on a November 1982 camping trip.[37]
Martin Turner, a leader in Texas, pleaded guilty in 2008 to two counts of indecency with a child by contact and one count of attempted indecency with a child by contact. He had abused two children in cases going back up to 40 years.[38]
Al Steven Stein, a former boy scout leader in Santa Barbara, California, was convicted in 2009 for felony child molestation and misdemeanor possession of child pornography. Stein and the Boy Scouts of America were sued for negligent training, knowledge of Stein's propensities, and failure to report. Roe v. Boy Scouts of America, Stein et al., settled in 2015 with the BSA. J. Geck awarded judgment against Stein. BSA has since changed some of its policies as requested by plaintiffs.[39]
David McDonald Rankin, a former Scoutmaster in College Park, Maryland, was convicted for abusing Scouts between 1984 and 1987.[40]
Gary Lee Gephart, a former Cub Scout leader in Oceanside, California, was convicted in 1996.[41]
Howard W. Curtis, a Haverhill, Massachusetts leader, pleaded guilty in May 2008 for acts occurring in the 1980s.[42]
James Hiatt, a former Boy Scout leader in Texas, was convicted in May 2008 for abuse that took place from about 2003 to 2005.[43][44]
Brad Stowell confessed to molesting 24 boys from 1989 until his arrest in 1997. Authorities working at the camp were warned numerous times during his employment. In 1988, at age 16, Stowell had previously admitted to police that he molested a 6-year-old, which Scout officials were also aware of.[45]
Gary Wade Brown, a former Boy Scout Leader in Orem, Utah, in 2009 pleaded guilty to four counts of sexual abuse of a child and sexual exploitation of a minor, second-degree felonies, and one count of lewdness involving a child, a Class A misdemeanor. Seven additional charges were dismissed as part of a plea agreement. The abuse involved a 12-year-old boy and took place between 2005 and 2006.[3]
Charles Donald Corley, a Boy Scout volunteer in Birmingham, Alabama, was convicted for sexual abuse against three young men in 1995.[46][47]
Richard Turley, a former volunteer in California, was convicted of kidnapping and sexually assaulting an 11-year-old Canadian scout. After 18 months, he was released from a mental institution and went right back to work, beginning his volunteer work at a California scout camp. In 1979, he assaulted three of those scouts. Upon learning this, Boy Scouts of American simply told Turley to return to Canada, not warning Scouts Canada of Turley's criminal behavior. In 1996, Turley went on to assault four boys, three of which were scouts, in Victoria, British Columbia. He was sentenced to seven years in prison.[48]
James Molyneaux, 2004, a former Boy Scout leader and 6th-grade English school teacher in Portville, New York, was arrested in connection to an abuse case of a 13-year-old in July 1997 at a campground owned by the Molyneaux family that was used for scouting activities and another case of an 11-year-old at his home in Portville, NY in September 2000. Although Molyneaux denied the charges, at trial he was found guilty of two counts of first-degree sodomy, two counts of second-degree sodomy, and one count of first-degree sexual abuse. Molyneaux is currently serving 17 1/2 to 23 years with a maximum sentence of 57 years in the Clinton Correctional Facility. The state has denied his appeal [49]
Garth David Snively, 1994, a former Boy Scout leader, was convicted for two counts of first-degree child molestation and sentenced to 11 years after his 1993 arrest for molesting at least 20 Boy Scout members of various ages over several years, as well as while a mentor in the Big Brothers program. His victims testified in court that while at his home in Everett, Washington, Snively would apply baby powder to and fondle their genitals, make them wear diapers and, in addition, make them fondle, powder and diaper him.[50] A Level III sex offender, Snively was released and now resides in Centralia, Washington.[51]
Richard Merry was an assistant Scout Leader in Troop 691, part of the Georgia Coastal Counsel, from 2006-2010. In September 2011, Merry was found guilty of victimizing several Boy Scouts in a general court martial and sentenced to 52 years of confinement and dishonorably discharged from the U.S. Navy. He is currently incarcerated at Leavenworth US Penitentiary.
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You do realize that the BSA has strict policies in place to keep that kind of stuff from happening now, right?
 
Grabs Turds Bare said:
Worse is the wrong word. Different is a better word.

Many folks in Scouting used the all-male atmosphere to help boys deal with the aging and maturing process.

Anecdotally, there were several boys in our Troop who significantly altered their behavior for the better because of the social policing that the Boy Scouts provided.

It's different from Rec Soccer or other youth activities because you interact with other adolescents/young adults in two atypical settings: formal meetings and overnight campouts.

A lot of the very rough physical play would not be suited to female involvement. We straight up beat the living shit out of each other sometimes. This helped a lot of the kids normalize in ways that have benefited them to this day. We had one red-head kid who came into the troop that was a total sack of shit with no concept of how to be normal in the world. He attributes his experience in the Scouts for putting him on the path to get married and have a normal job.

Also, teenagers be fuckin'. Co-ed makes it harder for that to not happen, but as I said earlier, it seems like that's just logistics.

tl;dr - one thing that made Scouts awesome was the physicality of it, girls wouldn't be able to hang, so there's a fear of things being "toned down" for them to hang.
Click to expand...

Special attention should be paid to the first half of your post. I realize I'm probably a few years away from some gay or trans boy showing up at my door dressed as a girl scout trying to sell me some cookies, but it doesn't mean it's right (I'll probably still give in and buy 4 boxes of Samoas). Some folks just want to shit on the BSA for the sake of having somewhere to shit. The gender equality stuff has gone overboard, and when people fail to see the benefits in what the BSA provides and what can be uniquely provided within the all-male environment of BSA (and no, sword fights and buttsex are not the things I'm talking about here). Think of it like additional schooling where you are taught practical things like how to be a good and useful individual rather than something relatively useless like math or social studies. It's more time to grow within a social environment, more time to grow as a man with other kids doing the same thing. It is also often an opportunity for fathers to step in and get some bonding time in with their boys, whether as a den leader or a volunteer in some other capacity. The outings are educational and memorable and formative. They don't need icky girls.

As you said, the potential for teenagers fucking can be handled logistically, and really the roughhousing can be too. I also don't think this is the end of the world. The point is there is no reason for the BSA to let in girls other than money. It's being done for the wrong reason at the expense of the GSA. I wouldn't be surprised if the blowback on this makes them really reconsider, or at least issue a new statement within the next few days saying that the new policy will not be as described. In the end, the primary reason for this (money) isn't going to matter when they have more people leaving or being uninterested in the BSA than they stand to gain from letting girls be boys.
 
The underlying theory of course to all these posts is that there is a benefit for being (and becoming) a “man” instead of a “woman” and that there is inherent value to this distinction.

I don’t think this distinction serves much.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
The underlying theory of course to all these posts is that there is a benefit for being (and becoming) a “man” instead of a “woman” and that there is inherent value to this distinction.

I don’t think this distinction serves much.
Click to expand...

"You're an idiot."

That is the only acceptable response to your post.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
of course it changes the dynamic. i thought the scouts were teaching inner strength and integrity, training future leaders.

or are you one of those people who thinks that women have a more-than-adequate shake when it comes to careers and leadership opportunities? how else are we going to train our kids to be better people.
Click to expand...

"Are you one of those people who thinks that women have a more-than-adequate shake when it comes to careers and leadership opportunities." Again, what are you talking about? You keep attributing things to me that I have not said and do not believe. Stop it.

Why does "teaching inner strength and integrity, training future leaders" absolutely require the presence of the opposite sex in every instance, 24/7/365, no matter what, or else we cannot "train our kids to be better people"? Seriously? What does anything you just said have to do with this issue?

There is absolutely no shortage of exposure to the opposite sex for boys and girls in 21st Century American society. Boys and girls grow up in co-ed households, go to school co-ed, play sports in many instances co-ed, belong to other co-ed clubs and organizations, go to church co-ed, and on, on and on. I strongly believe that there is still a place for single-sex organizations/environments, and they can and do provide a positive experience in ways that a co-ed environment cannot, just as co-ed environments can provide positive experiences in ways that a single-sex environment/organization cannot.
 
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