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Boy Scouts will admit girls

lbE08 said:
Did any of you asshats read the article?



SEPARATE programs for boys and girls, so you can still have your beloved same-sex groups doing all the things and rough-housing and whatever.
This just allows for girls to participate in the PROGRAM of boy scouts, which is definitely different from Girl Scouts.
As as Girl Scout Gold Award recipient and the sister of two Eagle Scouts, I can say for certain our programs were quite different from one-another, and had I not been in a really, really good Girl Scout troop with an incredible leader I absolutely would have been interested in doing Venture scouts (or one of the other BSA programs that allowed girls at the time). The camping and outdoors activities seemed more fun to me, the merit badges were more interesting than our interest project patches, and the overall civic mindset was more appealing to me than Girl Scouts as a whole. Allowing for girls to participate in that kind of a program - that's already established and vetted as a positive program - can only be positive.
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I'll allow it if they name it hens opposed to dens.
 
deaconson said:
in addition to the, unanswered in any meaningful way, question above i'd like to know what scout activities healthy and active girls could not manage? camping? hiking? jogging? canoeing? adolescent girls often have similar physical profiles. hit their teens and the physical differences start kicking in so they can't run any more? sure maybe they are not as fast on average but does not mean they can't do the activities.

i for one am tired of having to have conversations with my daughter about why she hears and is told misogynistic things about what she can and can't do, like etc. have you tried buying girls cloths? pink. purple. check. blue? not easy. red. can be tough. uggs? yep and f that. yoga pants for 6 and 7 year olds? you got it. daisy dukes? anywhere you go.

maybe treating girls and boys a little more alike would end some of the misogyny, glass ceiling bs, bullying, assault, stereotyping that plagues our society and gives us people like mike pence who can't trust himself to be alone with a woman.

the boy scouts may be late to the party. they may be doing it for the wrong reason (enrollment). but maybe it starts doing some good for raising our boys and girls in this country that has, for too long, been an old white guy party. no one else is allowed without their permission because they don't want to lose their power and privilege.
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Girls can handle all those things in your first paragraph. Can't they handle them in girl scouts?

Not sure what the second paragraph is about. No daughter of mine will be getting yoga pants at 6 or 7 or at anytime under my roof. No Daisy Dukes and none of the general whorewear I see girls donning these days. She doesn't have to look frumpy, but slutty will not be chic.

That said, she won't be dressing like a lesbian either in the name of gender equality unless, for some reason, she wants to dress like a lesbian, in which case I will draw the line at torn sleeve denim or plaid.

To your last post, I don't think BSA's current setup in any way will affect the OWG universe since there is no evidence it contributed to it in the first place. Bad men will continue to assert their physical dominance over women because they can and they get off on it, and there's no merit badge for that.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Girls can handle all those things in your first paragraph. Can't they handle them in girl scouts?

Not sure what the second paragraph is about. No daughter of mine will be getting yoga pants at 6 or 7 or at anytime under my roof. No Daisy Dukes and none of the general whorewear I see girls donning these days. She doesn't have to look frumpy, but slutty will not be chic.

That said, she won't be dressing like a lesbian either in the name of gender equality unless, for some reason, she wants to dress like a lesbian, in which case I will draw the line at torn sleeve denim or plaid.

To your last post, I don't think BSA's current setup in any way will affect the OWG universe since there is no evidence it contributed to it in the first place. Bad men will continue to assert their physical dominance over women because they can and they get off on it, and there's no merit badge for that.
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Girl Scouts does not necessarily place the same emphasis on those activities. It is very leader-specific as to whether or not your troop does a lot of outdoors activities, because the organization (GSUSA) gives leaders a lot of autonomy. Girl Scouts can learn many invaluable skills while successfully completing a path through Girl Scouts, but not the camping and resourcefulness and wilderness activities that are ubiquitous in Boy Scouts. The basic tenets of Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts are different, and neither's is gender specific - nor should it be in 2017.

His point is good luck finding those clothes, because the yoga pants and leggings and pink and purple short shorts are 95% of clothing that is marketed and sold to little girls. That is the norm, not the exception. Dressing your daughter in primary colors shouldn't be difficult to do, his point is that it is a lot harder than you would think.
 
lbE08 said:
Girl Scouts does not necessarily place the same emphasis on those activities. It is very leader-specific as to whether or not your troop does a lot of outdoors activities, because the organization (GSUSA) gives leaders a lot of autonomy. Girl Scouts can learn many invaluable skills while successfully completing a path through Girl Scouts, but not the camping and resourcefulness and wilderness activities that are ubiquitous in Boy Scouts. The basic tenets of Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts are different, and neither's is gender specific - nor should it be in 2017.

His point is good luck finding those clothes, because the yoga pants and leggings and pink and purple short shorts are 95% of clothing that is marketed and sold to little girls. That is the norm, not the exception. Dressing your daughter in primary colors shouldn't be difficult to do, his point is that it is a lot harder than you would think.
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OK, but my point is the girls scouts SHOULD perhaps change their emphasis and now maybe they will if they fear the BSA will poach their membership. I'm guessing GSA and BSA are not the same organization because otherwise why do that? Bad optics, regardless. Just seems rude.
 
I was an Eagle Scout and will admit that including girls seems like it would change the experience in a negative way, but also can't articulate why. I will also recognize that Boy Scouts, generally, seems to be a vastly superior product to Girl Scouts and that isn't really fair. I will also admit that, as a gay man, I was ready to send back my Eagle badge during the peak of that discussion a couple of years ago so I am in danger of being hypocritical.

I don't have any children, but one of the things I look forward to is being involved in scouting with a boy child. This doesn't mean that I won't want to go camping with a girl child or that I won't love a boy child who isn't interested in the outdoors (my father wasn't at my wedding... I know better than to be a judgmental ass), but it was a positive part of my childhood where, paradoxically, it was easier to be one of the boys and it didn't feel as obvious that I was different. It was the one time where I felt like I had something in common with my father. I want it to be there when my husband and I have children.

In the end, I think this is a nice solution. Some segregation at events for the younger kids and separate events for the old kids. I agree it was done for cynical reasons, but think it is good for girls because Girl Scouts is indeed absolute rubbish in many places (my BSA pack/troop had a 60 year history, while the GSA whatever in the same town didn't last more than 6 months at a time).

This was a bit of a rambly mess of a post, but there you have it.
 
Another Eagle Scout weighing in...I'll cop to being ambivalent about this.

I don't see why, if Girl Scouts is a less fulfilling experience for girls than Boy Scouts is for boys that this is the most natural solution, nor do I think that's the reason Boy Scouts are doing this.

I also think the potential good may outweigh the bad. It also seems to be offending the right people.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
I don't know when it became a sin to acknowledge that we are different and yes, we are and should be raised differently. Guys don't learn how to use tampons or pads or how to fight off would-be attackers, though I sure wish I had learned about taking off bras at some point.
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Sure, there are physical differences that are addressed from a biological perspective, but what specifically do you believe parents "should" do to raise boys and girls "differently?"
 
Fully realize that Shirley is an airplane reference. It's still insulting someone by calling them a woman.
 
deaconson said:
Fully realize that Shirley is an airplane reference. It's still insulting someone by calling them a woman.
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Man you guys take stuff seriously.

Can't common sense just prevail sometimes? The institution is called the Boy Scouts of America. They've been around for over 100 years, without girls being included, with no issues (in that regard) that the Google finds. Once the PC Principals get a whiff of such a horrible perceived injustice of not including girls in Boy Scouts - just say that out loud a few times - they must rectify such a horrible injustice.
 
I'm a proponent of evaluating practices on a continuing basis rather than going with the "this is the way we've always done it" defense.
 
tigerswood said:
Man you guys take stuff seriously.

Can't common sense just prevail sometimes? The institution is called the Boy Scouts of America. They've been around for over 100 years, without girls being included, with no issues (in that regard) that the Google finds. Once the PC Principals get a whiff of such a horrible perceived injustice of not including girls in Boy Scouts - just say that out loud a few times - they must rectify such a horrible injustice.
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You're missing the point that enrollment and retention has declined significantly over the last few decades. This is not some outside PC police tell the BSA that they need to start allowing girls in, this is the Boy Scouts themselves looking for ways to increase their long term viability as an organization.
 
Honestly thought Trump had destroyed PC forever

It's why I voted for him

Sad!
 
Girl Scouts can be an excellent experience for some girls, I am sure, but in my personal experience it pales in comparison to Boy Scouting. A big part of that is that there is so much focus on Cookie sales as a fund raiser, and the way troops are organized in Girl Scouts. Lurker noted that good boy scout troops are around for decades and have a succession of troop leaders and strong links between cub scouts and boy scouts, etc. In the south east, at least, Girl Scout Troops are formed and dissolved annually; each year requires a reorganization of the troops and the troop leaders which greatly reduces consistency. It takes months to get up and running, then it takes months to get organized for cookie sales (the troops see almost no benefit from the effort involved; <$1 per box sold goes back to the troop), so in order to get to the point of thinking about organizing a camping trip it's been months and the life of the troop is almost over as summer approaches. I have no idea what the advantages of the ephemeral nature troop organizations is, because it greatly reduces consistency and it reduces the effort people are will to invest in a troop because there is no legacy and no future.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Can anyone provide a discrete example of how the Boy Scouts would be worse with girls in it?
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I think men and women are inherently different. I think some boys might not be as open, honest, about struggles, growth, etc if a woman were present, especially if they are learning/dealing with issues directly related to males. and vice versa.
 
tigerswood said:
Man you guys take stuff seriously.

Can't common sense just prevail sometimes? The institution is called the Boy Scouts of America. They've been around for over 100 years, without girls being included, with no issues (in that regard) that the Google finds. Once the PC Principals get a whiff of such a horrible perceived injustice of not including girls in Boy Scouts - just say that out loud a few times - they must rectify such a horrible injustice.
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no issues?
 
SDeacz said:
I think men and women are inherently different. I think some boys might not be as open, honest, about struggles, growth, etc if a woman were present, especially if they are learning/dealing with issues directly related to males. and vice versa.
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I could see that.

On the flip side, maybe boys would be more open and honest moving forward, particularly in friendships and relationships with girls, if organizations they were involved in during their formative years encouraged and solidified that it was okay to be open and honest about their struggles and emotions in front of both other boys and girls rather than something to be ashamed of or for fear of not appearing "manly" enough.
 
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