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NBA’s 50 Greatest Players

I think I'd rather have Worthy and Walton on that list than Robinson or Pippen.
 
Can someone make the case for having Steph higher than Chris on any all time list at this point? Not saying he won't get there but the dude has had 4 good seasons.
 
RChildress107 said:
Can someone make the case for having Steph higher than Chris on any all time list at this point? Not saying he won't get there but the dude has had 4 good seasons.
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The Undefeated's dude on ESPN this morning credited Curry with revolutionizing offensive basketball in the last few years, specifically citing his range from three. Not saying I agree with it...just saying that was a big part of their reasoning.
 
RChildress107 said:
Can someone make the case for having Steph higher than Chris on any all time list at this point? Not saying he won't get there but the dude has had 4 good seasons.
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2 MVPs, 2 rings, best player on 73 win team, warped offensive basketball for an entire generation.

It's not really even that close anymore, imo.
 
DeacinBama said:
The Undefeated's dude on ESPN this morning credited Curry with revolutionizing offensive basketball in the last few years, specifically citing his range from three. Not saying I agree with it...just saying that was a big part of their reasoning.
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I mean that's a great argument for Steve Kerr being a great coach or Daryl Morey being a great GM or even Steph being one of the 50 most important players but that's not the question.
 
So if we accept that Steph is higher than CP3, where does Chris then fall on the list of top players? Top 60? Top 70?
 
vadimivich said:
2 MVPs, 2 rings, best player on 73 win team, warped offensive basketball for an entire generation.

It's not really even that close anymore, imo.
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MVPs don't mean shit if I'm being honest. Voters get it wrong too many times to put that much weight on it. Steph's two MVP seasons weren't any better individually than Chris's two best seasons in New Orleans, pre knee injury.

I think we are giving Steph far too much credit for having great teammates and an even better coach. That doesn't take away from what he's done the last three years, but that context is important.

Statistically you are right, it's not even really that close. Even though he's only three years older Chris has an enormous head start on Steph by virtue of entering the league younger and more ready to contribute.

Steph is just as much a beneficiary as he is a driver of the three point revolution. It was not a coincidence that he made the jump to elite status once Kerr took over and became an early adopter of offensive trends already present in Texas.

So even if we are giving Steph bonus points for being the greatest shooter of all time and for his role on an all time great team, it's not enough to put him on Chris's level as an all time player. Yet.

I do have Steph as a top 5 PG because he is one of the few to do all of the things you want your PG to do well (shoot, pass, play efficiently, defend, and protect the ball). Chris just happens to be better at all of those except the shooting.
 
OblongPickle said:
So if we accept that Steph is higher than CP3, where does Chris then fall on the list of top players? Top 60? Top 70?
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We don't. Chris is a top 30 player at a minimum and I would have him around 20. Steph is 40ish and rising. I posted this on the other thread but I guess it is needed here as well:

Just to put this to bed once and for all:

Stats RJ understands

10th all time in total assists (will easily finish top 5), 3rd in APG
16th all time in total steals (will probably finish top 5), 6th in SPG
3rd all time in assist to turnover ratio (behind Muggsy and John Paxson)

Stats RJ has heard of

6th all time in career PER (25.7)
24th all time in Win Shares (154)
3rd all time in Win Shares per 48 minutes (.2502)

3rd all time in Box Plus Minus (7.56)

Advanced Stats

17th in career VORP (Lebron is already 1st btw).
2nd in career Assist %
9th in career Steal %
1st in Offensive Rating

Playoffs

5th in career PER
60th in WS
5th in WS/48
3rd in BPM
33rd in VORP

Note that WS and VORP are cumulative so Paul's lack of games in the playoffs hurts him.

Awards

28th in MVP award shares
9x All-Star (T40)
4x 1st team All NBA (T26)
8 All NBA teams total
9x All Defense (7 first teams)

Elite Seasons: 6

Minimum PER: 24.0, WS: 12.5, BPM: 5.4, VORP: 5.2. (Cutoffs were based on top 300 all time for each metric, so a top 5-7 player on average)

Out of 121 such seasons since 1974, only Lebron, MJ, David Robinson, and Karl Malone have more.

All Time Seasons: 2

Minimum: PER: 28.2 , WS: 17.5, BPM: 8.5 , VORP: 8 (cutoffs based on top 50 in each category)

Out of 16 such seasons since 73-74, only Lebron and Jordan have more.



I could honestly keep going. Paul's statistical case as a top 10 player all time is pretty much unassailable, and that includes his playoff statistics. Dock him as much as you like for not translating those stats into championships all you want (and I do dock him some) but at least be honest about it.
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To claim Paul isn't a top 50 player is to essentially claim that all advanced stats are wrong.
 
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Nice post. And I fully believe Paul is a Top 50 player and was shocked at players like Steph and Ray Allen making the Top 50 over CP3. But it was obvious they focused on scoring and such as opposed to PER and assists/steals for a guard.

There's a reason so many guys wanna play with Chris.
 
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