Me Too [Cuomo joins hall of shame]

PhDeac said:

Why is the focus on the victim than the perpetrator? Your post is an example of why people wait until other people have come forward before coming forward themselves.

Click to expand...

Huh? I'm advocating that the victim come forward at the time of the issue, to try to prevent as many unwanted advances in the future as possible. To me, this particular instance just reeks of a publicity stunt.

tigerswood said:

Where did I excuse it or trivialize it? It was wrong, and he should have been called out on it. I believe it should have been at the time of the issue, rather than days/weeks/months later to the entire nation. But, keep up the good fight. You're a hero!

Click to expand...

You didn't. It's what they do, man...It's just what they do.

PhDeac said:

Why is the focus on the victim than the perpetrator? Your post is an example of why people wait until other people have come forward before coming forward themselves.

Click to expand...

this.

tigerswood, read this.
creamy, read this.
ELC, read this.
GTB, read this.

lbE08 said:

Of course it's an applicable analogy.
If some dude touches my ass and it makes me uncomfortable, even though he didn't intend for it to make me uncomfortable, does that mean I should therefore not be uncomfortable by him touching my ass?

Click to expand...

you should totally be uncomfortable. In no situation is it okay for a dude to go around touching asses of women he doesn't know. No one is arguing that, at least that I'm aware of.

The argument, to me, is the line drawn between an unsolicited ass tap and a simple shoulder tap or whatever the hell non-offensive other gesture.

Innocent and harmless men should not walk around terrified that they're going to have a lawsuit filed against them for giving a woman a hug, just like women shouldn't live in fear that there's a pervert about to walk up and smack their ass.

tigerswood said:

Huh? I'm advocating that the victim come forward at the time of the issue, to try to prevent as many unwanted advances in the future as possible. To me, this particular instance just reeks of a publicity stunt.

Click to expand...

...and you can't think of any reason why a victim might want to wait? or might be hesitant to bring it up?

tigerswood said:

Huh? I'm advocating that the victim come forward at the time of the issue, to try to prevent as many unwanted advances in the future as possible. To me, this particular instance just reeks of a publicity stunt.

Click to expand...

i'm going to speak for my wife who has dealt with this sort of advance/situation many times, usually in professional settings. each time the transgression was usually quick and not noticed by other parties (who are usually all men, anyway). Many times it would happen and it would take a minute or two to process and the person would have moved on or the situation changed making a call out already after the fact.

not to mention the fact that calling out has negative personal repercussions most of the time; and in my wife's case actual threats to squelch (or attempt to) publication of her research.

CreamyGoodness said:

you should totally be uncomfortable. In no situation is it okay for a dude to go around touching asses of women he doesn't know. No one is arguing that, at least that I'm aware of.

The argument, to me, is the line drawn between an unsolicited ass tap and a simple shoulder tap or whatever the hell non-offensive other gesture.

Innocent and harmless men should not walk around terrified that they're going to have a lawsuit filed against them for giving a woman a hug, just like women shouldn't live in fear that there's a pervert about to walk up and smack there ass.

Click to expand...

of course not, but GTB and ELC are saying you should give old guys a pass, or give upstanding citizens (former presidents) a pass, or disregard it because the person's been married a long time, etc..

or because rape is worse

lbE08 said:

this.

tigerswood, read this.
creamy, read this.
ELC, read this.
GTB, read this.

Click to expand...

I read it, and responded. When your issue occurred, did you obtain the man's name and go to the press/social media to ensure he was properly shamed? No, you called him out immediately, probably embarrassed the hell out of him in front of a bunch of strangers (perhaps friends/family/colleagues too), and I certainly hope he never acted that way again. Or at least that's how I read your story.

I think that's the way this woman should have handled this issue. But, we can certainty agree to disagree. It appears that you, and others, feel that GHWB should have been publicly shamed at the end of his life in front of millions.

tigerswood said:

I read it, and responded. When your issue occurred, did you obtain the man's name and go to the press/social media to ensure he was properly shamed? No, you called him out immediately, probably embarrassed the hell out of him in front of a bunch of strangers (perhaps friends/family/colleagues too), and I certainly hope he never acted that way again. Or at least that's how I read your story.

I think that's the way this woman should have handled this issue. But, we can certainty agree to disagree. It appears that you, and others, feel that GHWB should have been publicly shamed at the end of his life in front of millions.

Click to expand...

or he should just not grab women's asses

It's super easy to not grab a woman's ass.

It's amazing how tiger has essentially equated how the woman chose to address her attacker with the harassment itself.

This. Is. Victim. Shaming.

lbE08 said:

Oooooooooooooooooh, ok. So because it's happened since the beginning of time, it's ok. Got it. And because GHWB is old and married and is an ex-president, we should give him a pass. Got it.


The guy on the airplane was also old, he just didn't have the 'benefit' of being an ex-president. Is that why you hope I called him out? I did call him out, because I'm not OK with someone touching my butt regardless of how old they are, how many bar pins are on their WWII hat, how many years they were our president, whether or not they're married or for how long, etc..
As I asked GTB, how many people do you think would have called him out if I had not said anything? Probably zero, and sitting here listening to you tell me that some people should get a pass basically proves that fact. That is what needs to change.

Click to expand...

Let's put it this way in terms of the whole "giving him a pass" thing. An old man in a wheelchair pinches your ass. Do you (1) call the cops, (2) slap him, (3) cuss at him and accuse him of sexual assault, (4) ask him politely not to, or (5) roll your eyes and blow it off? I'm guessing 4 or 5, and the reason is the context of it. He's old, he's wrong and likely knows it, but he's also harmless. I know millennials think they're hot shit and world changers, but we haven't acted in that way since the beginning of time because we somehow weren't as advanced in our morality as millennials. We've acted that way precisely because the situation warrants such a response. 1, 2, and 3 are all overkill. We reserve the first 3 for something a bit more serious.

I get tons of poon. You guys are tripping

ImTheCaptain said:

or he should just not grab women's asses

It's super easy to not grab a woman's ass.

Click to expand...

Yep. Creamy is right. You are either dense, trolling, or just insufferable. No one is saying it was acceptable.

On the flip side, to lbE and others, the social media era has clearly made it easier for victims to come out publicly after the fact. In most cases that is a very good thing. I disagree that this is one of those cases.

EatLeadCommie said:

Let's put it this way in terms of the whole "giving him a pass" thing. An old man in a wheelchair pinches your ass. Do you (1) call the cops, (2) slap him, (3) cuss at him and accuse him of sexual assault, (4) ask him politely not to, or (5) roll your eyes and blow it off? I'm guessing 4 or 5, and the reason is the context of it. He's old, he's wrong and likely knows it, but he's also harmless. I know millennials think they're hot shit and world changers, but we haven't acted in that way since the beginning of time because we somehow weren't as advanced in our morality as millennials. We've acted that way precisely because the situation warrants such a response. 1, 2, and 3 are all overkill. We reserve the first 3 for something a bit more serious.

Click to expand...

and so women will just have to accept being pinched, groped, catcalled and marginalized

/thread

CreamyGoodness said:

And to another point, a gay buddy of mine is the same way. Very touchy feely kind fella and he isn't going to change that unless someone asks him to. As a straight fella, I don't mind if he puts his hand on my back when we chat..Doesn't bother me...might bother someone else and hopefully that person calls him out.

It's usually obvious when discerning between a misogynistic douche and a touchy feely guy who is harmless. We, as a society, should be smart enough at this point to understand the difference.

Click to expand...

It's weird how some people are so unable to empathize that any issue has to relate back to how a similar personal situation they dealt with made them feel -- and they believe the way it made them feel is how it should make everyone feel. Definitely a a little piece of the old brain missing.

I think part of some of the disconnect is some basic difference between men and women, or how some people consider men and women and sexual considerations.

Some Canadian judge is in trouble for espousing what seems pretty insensitive viewpoints related to this.


Quote
————
...Judge Braun eventually found the taxi driver, Carlo Figaro, 49, guilty of sexual assault. He is appealing the verdict.

According to the victim's testimony, Figaro tried to kiss her, licked her face and groped her while she was a passenger in his vehicle.

"You could say she's a little overweight, but she has a pretty face, huh?" the judge said of the victim during the trial, according to a recording obtained by the Journal de Montreal.

He also spoke about the different degrees of consent required to kiss someone, saying it was "not the same" as the consent required to grab a person's rear end, the newspaper reported.

The judge also reportedly mused the victim might have been flattered by the attention from the taxi driver because "it was perhaps the first time that he was interested in her".

It is not the first time Mr Braun has come under scrutiny.

He was criticised in 2013 for saying the case of a telecom technician who verbally harassed a 19-year-old and grabbed her breasts was not "the crime of the century"...
————

tigerswood said:

Yep. Creamy is right. You are either dense, trolling, or just insufferable. No one is saying it was acceptable.

On the flip side, to lbE and others, the social media era has clearly made it easier for victims to come out publicly after the fact. In most cases that is a very good thing. I disagree that this is one of those cases.

Click to expand...

again, the cumulative value of these so called "minor" transgressions is what creates the culture that makes women have to defend their sexuality at all times, in every situation. it's something that men simply do not have to do. if you want to trivialize Bush grabbing an ass because he's old? or a president? or something, fine but you're still guilty of being a douche even if you want to waive your hand about it.

EatLeadCommie said:

Let's put it this way in terms of the whole "giving him a pass" thing. An old man in a wheelchair pinches your ass. Do you (1) call the cops, (2) slap him, (3) cuss at him and accuse him of sexual assault, (4) ask him politely not to, or (5) roll your eyes and blow it off? I'm guessing 4 or 5, and the reason is the context of it. He's old, he's wrong and likely knows it, but he's also harmless. I know millennials think they're hot shit and world changers, but we haven't acted in that way since the beginning of time because we somehow weren't as advanced in our morality as millennials. We've acted that way precisely because the situation warrants such a response. 1, 2, and 3 are all overkill. We reserve the first 3 for something a bit more serious.

Click to expand...

No, no he isn't harmless.

Violating somebody's personal space in this manner is not a victimless crime just because somebody is "old and knows he's wrong". That just isn't true. It doesn't make the person accosted feel any better or less victimized because it's an older person.

Are they mitigating factors in your opinion? Obviously yes, but I don't think that it makes a person feel any better because of these factors.

Deacsfan27 said:

It's amazing how tiger has essentially equated how the woman chose to address her attacker with the harassment itself.

This. Is. Victim. Shaming.

Click to expand...

Oh man, now he was an attacker? Wow. Do you honestly think she felt in danger? And I never equated the "wrongness" of the butt grab (100% inappropriate) and the public announcement (in my opinion, she could have handled it better).