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Me Too [Cuomo joins hall of shame]

tigerswood, thank you for the rep (seriously - he wrote me a nice message).
however, i'm posting a response out here because I think others need to hear this too: please understand that my experiences as I've posted them on here are not the only ones I've dealt with, and they are very typical to any woman out there. You don't hear about them in the full volume that they take place because of the reaction they cause. We get told we are overreacting, that we probably did something to make that person think it was ok, that we could 'really screw things up for that person if this gets out', that we are tarnishing reputations... so, yeah. If we all agree it's reprehensible behavior, then boom. That's it. End of thread.

There is no follow-on comment of, "but he's a good guy!" ...everyone loved Cosby until he was exposed, too. Sometimes 'good' guys do shitty things; their 'goodness' doesn't provide any type of protection if it comes out that they've engaged in this behavior. No excuses. The only thing you say should be, "wow. not cool. he shouldn't have done that." The end.

There is no follow-on comment of, "well, she could be after something." Deal with that later, if it comes out that that's the case. How come a guy can be proven guilty and still held harmless on account of his past actions or standing, but a woman who comes out and speaks about a negative experience is suddenly presumed guilty of something else that is totally irrelevant to the fact she was touched/groped/worse, without her permission or against her will?

Very fair. I do think victim shaming is a problem as a whole, and can see how my language has come across that way.

I guess my main point is that I feel like we should be focusing the majority of our outrage, efforts, media coverage, etc. on true predators and criminals, rather than these particular GHWB incidents. Different than how you feel, I do think that there are limited amounts of those things that could be better utilized. Maybe this story is making bigger local news in Charlotte than a man who was caught roofying (?) women at local popular bars. Who knows - just a made up example.

I also do think I'm probably jaded for my appreciation and like for GHWB, which shouldn't really come into play.
 
I got my shoulder popped out of socket by a girl. Granted, I deserved it and she trained in martial arts.
 
Very fair. I do think victim shaming is a problem as a whole, and can see how my language has come across that way.

I guess my main point is that I feel like we should be focusing the majority of our outrage, efforts, media coverage, etc. on true predators and criminals, rather than these particular GHWB incidents. Different than how you feel, I do think that there are limited amounts of those things that could be better utilized. Maybe this story is making bigger local news in Charlotte than a man who was caught roofying (?) women at local popular bars. Who knows - just a made up example.

I also do think I'm probably jaded for my appreciation and like for GHWB, which shouldn't really come into play.

I think I see the issue. tigerswood sees this as a thread specifically about the accusations against HW. Most of the rest of us see those accusation as simply a starting point for a discussion about broader issues of sexual harassment and abuse.
 
The post was more for you SJWs that love to vilify stuff like this, while not looking in the mirror at your own lives. Sexual assault/harassment is a huge issue in this country that absolutely does need to be addressed and stopped.

These particular GHWB incidents aren't even a blip on the radar of the overall problem, and will lead to absolutely zero change and progress, in my opinion. I just don't know how y'all can get so up and arms about relatively minor incidents that have zero effect on your personal lives (unless any of you know the actress/her friends/family) given the big picture.

I also really don't know why I keep posting, because clearly you will never be able to see this point of view.

You and Catamount keep diminishing the importance of the episode and then criticizing the woman for exposing the problem the way she did; This is victim blaming and shaming without once considering how GHWB could have handled it better you just make excuses for his behavior (an illness he doesn't actually have) or give reasons why we should ignore it this case (Great man!).
 
Also of importance, I think there is a very small percentage of women out there who fuck the whole thing up for the majority of women

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trump_feelings_tshirts.jpg
 
Very fair. I do think victim shaming is a problem as a whole, and can see how my language has come across that way.

I guess my main point is that I feel like we should be focusing the majority of our outrage, efforts, media coverage, etc. on true predators and criminals, rather than these particular GHWB incidents. Different than how you feel, I do think that there are limited amounts of those things that could be better utilized. Maybe this story is making bigger local news in Charlotte than a man who was caught roofying (?) women at local popular bars. Who knows - just a made up example.

I also do think I'm probably jaded for my appreciation and like for GHWB, which shouldn't really come into play.

I think the opposite. We don't need to focus the majority of our outrage on the egregious cases, the "predators and criminals" as you call them. We don't need media coverage to convince people that you shouldn't slip something in someone's drink for the purpose of raping them. Everyone pretty much universally agrees that those people are scumbags. But the types of behaviors that you are trivializing on this thread cause real harm to millions of women all the time that is largely unrecognized. And it's not always easy for them to say something at the time (or ever), for all kinds of reasons. That's why I think it's shitty when people on this thread (not you) mock the "SJW" for picking up the cause of something they have no experience with, because I think it needs to be us (let's face it, most of this board is well off white guys in positions of relative power) to step up and make it clear that these behaviors aren't acceptable, no matter who you are. For too long we've been silent, and it's time to speak up.
 
Has the thread title encouraged anybody else to listen to Clipse?

 
I think the opposite. We don't need to focus the majority of our outrage on the egregious cases, the "predators and criminals" as you call them. We don't need media coverage to convince people that you shouldn't slip something in someone's drink for the purpose of raping them. Everyone pretty much universally agrees that those people are scumbags. But the types of behaviors that you are trivializing on this thread cause real harm to millions of women all the time that is largely unrecognized. And it's not always easy for them to say something at the time (or ever), for all kinds of reasons. That's why I think it's shitty when people on this thread (not you) mock the "SJW" for picking up the cause of something they have no experience with, because I think it needs to be us (let's face it, most of this board is well off white guys in positions of relative power) to step up and make it clear that these behaviors aren't acceptable, no matter who you are. For too long we've been silent, and it's time to speak up.

this

also, while not women, some of us have experience by immediate proxy by witnessing and dealing with the fallout of these types of transgressions on our loved ones.
 
tigerswood, thank you for the rep (seriously - he wrote me a nice message).
however, i'm posting a response out here because I think others need to hear this too: please understand that my experiences as I've posted them on here are not the only ones I've dealt with, and they are very typical to any woman out there. You don't hear about them in the full volume that they take place because of the reaction they cause. We get told we are overreacting, that we probably did something to make that person think it was ok, that we could 'really screw things up for that person if this gets out', that we are tarnishing reputations... so, yeah. If we all agree it's reprehensible behavior, then boom. That's it. End of thread.

There is no follow-on comment of, "but he's a good guy!" ...everyone loved Cosby until he was exposed, too. Sometimes 'good' guys do shitty things; their 'goodness' doesn't provide any type of protection if it comes out that they've engaged in this behavior. No excuses. The only thing you say should be, "wow. not cool. he shouldn't have done that." The end.

There is no follow-on comment of, "well, she could be after something." Deal with that later, if it comes out that that's the case. How come a guy can be proven guilty and still held harmless on account of his past actions or standing, but a woman who comes out and speaks about a negative experience is suddenly presumed guilty of something else that is totally irrelevant to the fact she was touched/groped/worse, without her permission or against her will?

Yeah, honestly, nothing stung worse than finding out Cosby wasn't all smiles, gibberish and funny sweaters. I still don't want to believe he did anything wrong. What a "great dude"
 
Very fair. I do think victim shaming is a problem as a whole, and can see how my language has come across that way.

I guess my main point is that I feel like we should be focusing the majority of our outrage, efforts, media coverage, etc. on true predators and criminals, rather than these particular GHWB incidents. Different than how you feel, I do think that there are limited amounts of those things that could be better utilized. Maybe this story is making bigger local news in Charlotte than a man who was caught roofying (?) women at local popular bars. Who knows - just a made up example.

I also do think I'm probably jaded for my appreciation and like for GHWB, which shouldn't really come into play.


Media attention, sure... but I think we all understand why GHWB miiiiight get more press than Joe Shmoe.
That does not take away from the fact that our collective reaction to any of these incidents should be nothing past reprehension/dismay for the person who did it.

That reaction doesn't mean you automatically think they are a terrible, terrible person. GHWB still did good things. That doesn't excuse his behavior, and until we just make a blanket statement that it is bad and someone shouldn't do it, whoever they are, then people will continue to find reasons why it's 'fine.' But it's not fine for the women who put up with it from age 10 until death, and it's a prettttyyyy fine line between David Cop-A-Feel and 'hey I'm your boss and my hand is on your thigh.' If we can't openly come down on even the "small" stuff without women feeling like they're risking themselves to put it out there, how on earth do we expect to address the bigger things?



ETA: the 'bigger things' meaning these little power moves that make women uncomfortable, but also stuck due to the person doing it to them and situation in which it's happening. If I had a coworker or work superior pull the 'david cop-a-feel' thing on me, it is really lame that I feel like I would have to weigh bringing it up to HR against the fallout of workplace dynamic/being a narc. Somehow it would be my 'fault' that something happened to this guy, rather than people realizing that guy made a shitty, inappropriate choice. That mindset is constantly perpetuated by reactions like we're seeing on this thread.
 
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I think the opposite. We don't need to focus the majority of our outrage on the egregious cases, the "predators and criminals" as you call them. We don't need media coverage to convince people that you shouldn't slip something in someone's drink for the purpose of raping them. Everyone pretty much universally agrees that those people are scumbags. But the types of behaviors that you are trivializing on this thread cause real harm to millions of women all the time that is largely unrecognized. And it's not always easy for them to say something at the time (or ever), for all kinds of reasons. That's why I think it's shitty when people on this thread (not you) mock the "SJW" for picking up the cause of something they have no experience with, because I think it needs to be us (let's face it, most of this board is well off white guys in positions of relative power) to step up and make it clear that these behaviors aren't acceptable, no matter who you are. For too long we've been silent, and it's time to speak up.

This is a very well-written post. Had not really considered this. I am trying to think how many times some form of harassment has occurred in front of me, and I may have missed it or written it off as trivial. In recent memory - i.e. the past 3-5 years, I really can't think of anything (can think of several from HS, college, and early 20s). Wondering if that's more a product of surrounding myself with "good people", or being somewhat blinded to the issues. Probably both, but hopefully more of the 1st thing.
 
This is a very well-written post. Had not really considered this. I am trying to think how many times some form of harassment has occurred in front of me, and I may have missed it or written it off as trivial. In recent memory - i.e. the past 3-5 years, I really can't think of anything (can think of several from HS, college, and early 20s). Wondering if that's more a product of surrounding myself with "good people", or being somewhat blinded to the issues. Probably both, but hopefully more of the 1st thing.


Hopefully more of the first thing, sure, but now you have more awareness to go forward in recognizing whether or not it's the second.
One time at work, the elevator doors closed after I got off and before the elevator was really out of earshot, I heard "I mean, did you SEE her in that skirt?!" followed immediately by, "Dude, that's inappropriate." Be the guy who says "Dude, that's inappropriate."
 
Me Too? [GHWB commits sexual assault?]

Hopefully more of the first thing, sure, but now you have more awareness to go forward in recognizing whether or not it's the second.
One time at work, the elevator doors closed after I got off and before the elevator was really out of earshot, I heard "I mean, did you SEE her in that skirt?!" followed immediately by, "Dude, that's inappropriate." Be the guy who says "Dude, that's inappropriate."

Question for you. Should the guy have given you a complement instead? If so, what would have been appropriate? A simple "you look very nice" perhaps? Or should he have just kept his mouth shut?
 
Couple weeks ago I held the door open for this woman who looked roughly my age. She looked at me and said "don't even think about it."

I don't know what I wasn't supposed to be thinking about but then it made me wonder if I should have been thinking about something.
 
Hopefully more of the first thing, sure, but now you have more awareness to go forward in recognizing whether or not it's the second.
One time at work, the elevator doors closed after I got off and before the elevator was really out of earshot, I heard "I mean, did you SEE her in that skirt?!" followed immediately by, "Dude, that's inappropriate." Be the guy who says "Dude, that's inappropriate."

I hear you but there are also a lot of women who flat our do not give a hoot that a dude likes her skirt and/or compliments it.
 
Couple weeks ago I held the door open for this woman who looked roughly my age. She looked at me and said "don't even think about it."

I don't know what I wasn't supposed to be thinking about but then it made me wonder if I should have been thinking about something.

Dude..Where are these women? Seriously. Where the fuck are these feminists that seem to be so prevalent. You were a good person and held a door open for someone. What has happened in these women's lives that have made them so callous towards men who aren't posing a threat? I don't see it at work. I don't see it in my family. I don't see it in public. I don't see it when I leave W-S and go to big cities. I hear about it on these boards and I see it on MSM.

LBE - would you agree that #'s example could be a woman going a bit overboard?
 
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I really didn't get what she meant. Did she mean "don't hold the door" (I hold it for anyone that's within a couple steps when I walk in, it's rude not to) or "you're not getting any of this" or "don't talk to me"

Who knows.
 
I really didn't get what she meant. Did she mean "don't hold the door" (I hold it for anyone that's within a couple steps when I walk in, it's rude not to) or "you're not getting any of this" or "don't talk to me"

Who knows.

yeah that's pretty inexplicable.
 
I really didn't get what she meant. Did she mean "don't hold the door" (I hold it for anyone that's within a couple steps when I walk in, it's rude not to) or "you're not getting any of this" or "don't talk to me"

Who knows.

Holding the door, even for women, does not seem very common up north in my experience, and I've had a bunch of northern girls who've moved south say the same thing (one of the reason they like southern guys). My guess is she was from NY/NJ and thought you were making a pass at her by holding the door for her.
 
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