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Me Too [Cuomo joins hall of shame]

It's amazing the hills some folks will die on just to stick it to a group they find annoying.

SJWs are irritating...so you find yourself condoning sexual assault?
Dems are irritating...so you find yourself condoning nazi rallies?
 
You're doing it again. You are making a hostile environment for someone to come forward with someone else's inappropriate actions. You are part of the problem.

There is always a reason. There is always a criticism of how someone could have come forward 'better.' There is always a "I can't believe she's got the gall to say this, now, of all times" reaction - rather than "man, he shouldn't have done that."

You think she's reading this message board? Man I have some serious power.

You also have no idea what the actress' intentions were in coming out so publicly after the fact. Neither do I. Is it possible this press will help her career? I'd say quite probable. Did that factor into her decision to go public the way she did? Who knows? Maybe she just felt so upset and moved to share her story and felt that GHWB should be held accountable for his actions by millions.

Was he still wrong to have done it? Absolutely. Not being able to see both sides of the issue is shortsighted, in my opinion.
 
Saying "both sides of the issue" here is like when Trump tried to claim there were fine folks on both sides of the nazi rally. There is not a second side to the issue of sexual assault.
 
Saying "both sides of the issue" here is like when Trump tried to claim there were fine folks on both sides of the nazi rally. There is not a second side to the issue of sexual assault.

How? I've said in every single post that he was wrong.

How many cases have there been when a woman comes out publicly against/sued high profile figures (several athletes come to mind) only to be determined that it was a money grab or she was a jaded ex. This is absolutely not the norm, and sexual assault is a serious problem that should continue to be addressed, but there certainly can be multiple sides to the issue.
 
What is the other side, exactly? An embarrassed person?

If a friend of the actress comes out tomorrow and said they joked about the incident, and her reason for coming out publicly was a press/money grab, would you feel the same? I'm not saying that has anything to do with it, but this is the real world, and it's definitely possible. Wouldn't that be another side to this incident?
 
You think she's reading this message board? Man I have some serious power.

You also have no idea what the actress' intentions were in coming out so publicly after the fact. Neither do I. Is it possible this press will help her career? I'd say quite probable. Did that factor into her decision to go public the way she did? Who knows? Maybe she just felt so upset and moved to share her story and felt that GHWB should be held accountable for his actions by millions.

Was he still wrong to have done it? Absolutely. Not being able to see both sides of the issue is shortsighted, in my opinion.



omg I'm actually laughing out loud at this post right now. You are incredible. This last sentence is gold.

If you honestly cannot see how YOUR reaction is part of the problem, and that this general attitude -regardless of whether or not someone reads this message board - is felt all the time or heard regularly by women who all have stories that they could share but choose not to...

New story. In college, someone was trying to pressure me into doing something I did not want to do. I was, thankfully, able to get myself out of that situation. I told three people, and the reactions were:
1. "Really? That doesn't sound like something he would do." (I just told you that he did. So you... what. Don't believe me?)
2. "What's the big deal? Nothing happened." ('Nothing' happened because I got away and left.)
3. "That was like, last year." (OK, and I'm trying to tell you NOW why I am not comfortable sharing a house with them.)

So I stopped saying anything. What was the point? I was tired of feeling like I had to somehow defend myself for daring to say anything out loud about this person's behaviors... and it's because of reactions like yours.

Women need to speak out. Men need to speak out. Women need men who believe them. Women need to hear men come down on other men for their bullshit. It sucks that you can get a group of women together and they can all go around and tell stories like this and almost laugh about them because we've all been there (it's perverse, really)... and then you ask how many of them spoke up about it, and everyone goes silent. Because what's the point if all that's going to happen from talking about it is that we get ridiculed or criticized or second-guessed or are assumed to be 'after something.'
 
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omg I'm actually laughing out loud at this post right now. You are incredible. This last sentence is gold.

If you honestly cannot see how YOUR reaction is part of the problem, and that this general attitude -regardless of whether or not someone reads this message board - is felt all the time or heard regularly by women who all have stories that they could share but choose not to...

New story. In college, someone was trying to pressure me into doing something I did not want to do. I was, thankfully, able to get myself out of that situation. I told three people, and the reactions were:
1. "Really? That doesn't sound like something he would do." (I just told you that he did. So you... what. Don't believe me?)
2. "What's the big deal? Nothing happened." ('Nothing' happened because I got away and left.)
3. "That was like, last year." (OK, and I'm trying to tell you NOW why I am not comfortable sharing a house with them.)

So I stopped saying anything. What was the point? I was tired of feeling like I had to somehow defend myself for daring to say anything out loud about this person's behaviors... and it's because of reactions like yours.

Women need to speak out. Men need to speak out. Women need men who believe them. Women need to hear men come down on other men for their bullshit. It sucks that you can get a group of women together and they can all go around and tell stories like this and almost laugh about them because we've all been there (it's perverse, really)... and then you ask how many of them spoke up about it, and everyone goes silent. Because what's the point if all that's going to happen from talking about it is that we get ridiculed or criticized or second-guessed or are assumed to be 'after something.'

I've said all along that what he did is wrong, and the experience you just shared sounds much worse - I'm sorry you had to endure that. I've had to console friends/girlfriends after some pretty terrible events, and would never react how those people did.

Perhaps I should be less cynical, but it seems pretty natural to me to consider than an actress could have ulterior motives in such a public announcement of a 93 year old, ex-president grabbing her butt. Signing off for the evening.
 
If a friend of the actress comes out tomorrow and said they joked about the incident, and her reason for coming out publicly was a press/money grab, would you feel the same? I'm not saying that has anything to do with it, but this is the real world, and it's definitely possible. Wouldn't that be another side to this incident?

Preface: I am wrong WAY more often than I am right. That being said, here is how I would suggest approaching this case, and all other cases like it: She said it happened. He said it happened. He (or his representative) apologized (kind of).

Let's just go ahead and believe her at face value. You have said several times that what he did was wrong. Thank you. Let's just end it there. It was wrong.

Now, if tomorrow, like in your scenario, it comes out that there were ulterior motives, etc. we will deal with that then. In the meantime, "maybe's" and "who knows" and "she could of's" are really pretty insulting to all women everywhere since ever.
 
I don't know if you're being difficult on purpose, or what. The fact of the matter is all of these behaviors have had their eyes rolled at forever because when women try to bring to light the fact it makes them uncomfortable, you are literally telling us to brush it off and get over it. Hell, you can do that, so why can't I? Oh, and that's cool that your wife will also roll her eyes and move on. And guess what, I have also managed to 'get over' the fact the guy did it to me on the plane. But why should I have to? Why is it a problem to begin with? Because you and people like you are effectively condoning the behavior. You can't contain this behavior to just 'old guys' or 'married guys' or 'guys that mean well' or 'good citizens' and saying it's ok for one group just normalizes and makes it somehow acceptable on a wider scale.

Why should your wife even be in a position to have to brush something off. Why is it up to me to have to figure out how to respond to these behaviors. Why can't men just NOT FUCKING TOUCH MY ASS.

People like you need to step in and say, blanket statement, THIS IS NOT OK. This is never ok. Is it rape? Is it aggravated assault? No. It doesn't matter. It is still NOT OK. Stop trying to tell people that it is ever ok.

To be clear, I never said this was ok. I said it's not sexual assault and shouldn't be termed as such (she originally tweeted that it was). My point was that when we start lumping all these things in as sexual assault, it seems to lessen actual sexual assault. GHWB goosing a girl at age 90 in his wheelchair is not the same thing as Harvey Weinstein sexually harassing women and it sure isn't the same thing as him forcing himself on and into them. I don't feel like this is a controversial opinion to make that differentiation. If you want to say all of it should be brought up because it's all wrong, fine. That's a tactical decision and one that we can reasonably disagree on. Perhaps it's the better course of action to bring them all up since they're related, and maybe using the opportunity to shed light on grabassing will make people less inclined to objectify women at a very base level, which is a good thing.

Goosing is certainly not ok, but on the Scale Of Not OK, it's a blip in comparison. We have people on here acting like people should be put in jail and registered as sex offenders for this, which is absurd.

If there's one good thing to come out of this thread, it's that it is reminding me of how much I need to get out and slap the ass of my favorite bartendress. Been awhile.
 
Unwanted sexual touching is illegal in some (most?) states. It's literally a crime (indecent assault and battery)
 
ALL this talk about how the woman could have handled this better is great and super useful, but let’s consider how GHWB could have handled it better. You know, shame the perpetrator instead of the victim. Perhaps not try to put his arm around her in the first place...perhaps explain to her beforehand that was going to put his arm around her for the picture but that he might accidentally touch her bum because his arms don’t work that well any more and then she could have decided if she wanted that. Seems like doing it without warning then making a rehearsed joke to try blow it off is pretty fucking sketchy. Maybe not the worst way he could have handled it but pretty sketchy.
 
Because it's an old man in a wheelchair and an old man in a wheelchair who everybody happens to know is on his last legs and yes, that's relevant. That it's GHWB can't be completely disregarded, because they aren't asking for a picture with him if he isn't GHWB. "Dirty old man" is not an excuse, but it's a reality that people deal with and have rolled their eyes at since the beginning of time. He's not fingerblasting anybody or tuning in Tokyo. He'll be dead soon and has been married to Barbara for years. A little goose shouldn't even be a ding in somebody's pride and at this point isn't even going to go into his spank bank. Maybe worry about how GWB or Jeb or Neil and their kids act instead, because you aren't going to change a 93 year old man.

Men copping feels in airplanes is creepy and I hope you called him out. He's probably the same one trying to feel girls up under a blanket when they sleep on the plane. Airplanes, subway trains, crowded clubs, etc... All the same.

Dude, what?
 
It appears that a lot of men struggle with the idea that the 5000 year free pass is over. Whether it is touching, assaulting, verbal abuse or demeaning, less pay, less opportunity - it’s over. Rightfully so, it was fucked up. GHWB is a perv, a predator. Just like Bill Clinton and Trump.
 
Do we know to what level GHWB touched the hiney? There's a big difference between a pat on the behind vs. a full-out grope that ventures into the crack.
 
Women feel there isnt. That's the crux. I think you're trolling, but that is the whole problem, men don't think there is a difference. But of course it isn't up to men, it's up to women. Men can decide what is appropriate grabbing of their asses though
 
anxiously awaiting the next anecdote about how you're not made to feel uncomfortable and why women shouldn't either

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...and you can't think of any reason why a victim might want to wait? or might be hesitant to bring it up?

lbE, straight up, no bullshit - if you came up to me on an airplane (or anywhere) and said, "yo, did you see that guy grab my ass? I'm hella creeped out right now." I'd be like, "cool, do you wanna switch seats or something so you're not near him anymore," or, if I saw it, "yeah, I saw it. Let's totes get the stewardess and have the guy thrown out of the plane." Guarantee that every dude in this thread (including ELC and I) would be right on board with that course of action - or whatever you needed to feel comfortable.

I understand you may feel like there is a cabal of men who constantly want to play grab-ass with hot vulnerable chicks (or you may not feel that way), but every guy knows that there are creeps out there - and I'd wager that the majority of us wouldn't put up with seeing one of them blatantly grab your ass in an inappropriate context.

My beef with this thread is it's basically yet another a platform for Numbers and ITC to scream "notice me senpai" at the top of their lungs while picking up the cause of something they have no experience with.
 
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