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Official Meltdown thread

It was major screaming red flags of worry when DM was talking about 4 guard as a legitimate convo in preseason and now that bad fruit is coming to bear. He has been and will be way over his head as a sideline coach. Not one sign of good D coaching since day 1 and you can talk about the horrible talent he was dealt but great coaches can coach solid D. Davey O did it when he first came in with a mixed bag of talent as did Tony Bennett @ UVA and many others. Last year was an absolute trainwreck on D side but because we could score a bunch in a few games we ignored what was a glaring glaring bust of ability. Then his ability to manage the players and use the talent on hand has always been a mystery including not giving certain players a chance while Wilbekin and Chill have games where they do absolutely nothing.

There has been nothing to show Wilbekin is even a middling ACC player except for the occasional game @ home when he hits the few 3s where he can get open and Chill who is very much undersized and forces it. The give up in size and length with 4 guards (as well as 3 guards at times) is an absolute disaster @ any level unless you have 4 All ACC players @ those guard spots.

Also now one can't help but wonder if JC was just a great talent that was going to develop no matter who was coach as it is clear so far that not the improvement you would expect with DM, SJM or any others when going against undersized and lower level talents in the paint.

Agree with others that I think this takes the Stetson cake as thought those days were behind us. As Lee Corso would say "not so fast" my friend and a great recruiting class doesn't over take coaching this bad.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
Depends on how liberal your definition of "played" is. We've been physically present on the court for 2 games at least.
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2/17 3 pt shooting last night :eek:

The team still can't shoot straight.

Quit chucking up bombs and get paint touches at the rim.

And REBOUND!
 
saltydeac said:
It was major screaming red flags of worry when DM was talking about 4 guard as a legitimate convo in preseason and now that bad fruit is coming to bear. He has been and will be way over his head as a sideline coach. Not one sign of good D coaching since day 1 and you can talk about the horrible talent he was dealt but great coaches can coach solid D. Davey O did it when he first came in with a mixed bag of talent as did Tony Bennett @ UVA and many others. Last year was an absolute trainwreck on D side but because we could score a bunch in a few games we ignored what was a glaring glaring bust of ability. Then his ability to manage the players and use the talent on hand has always been a mystery including not giving certain players a chance while Wilbekin and Chill have games where they do absolutely nothing.

There has been nothing to show Wilbekin is even a middling ACC player except for the occasional game @ home when he hits the few 3s where he can get open and Chill who is very much undersized and forces it. The give up in size and length with 4 guards (as well as 3 guards at times) is an absolute disaster @ any level unless you have 4 All ACC players @ those guard spots.

Also now one can't help but wonder if JC was just a great talent that was going to develop no matter who was coach as it is clear so far that not the improvement you would expect with DM, SJM or any others when going against undersized and lower level talents in the paint.

Agree with others that I think this takes the Stetson cake as thought those days were behind us. As Lee Corso would say "not so fast" my friend and a great recruiting class doesn't over take coaching this bad.
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If you're going to play a 4 guard lineup you better have 4 really good guards, that can board, play tough D even on guys bigger then them and can drive the ball and finish. We've only got 2 Craw and Key that are even close to being able to do any of those things. Mitch can't do any and Lil Chill isn't showing it either.
 
morrison2951 said:
2/17 3 pt shooting last night :eek:

The team still can't shoot straight.

Quit chucking up bombs and get paint touches at the rim.

And REBOUND!
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This is a MORONIC post. Last year we shot 38.7% on threes as a team. This was good enough for third in the ACC and returned three of our Top 4 shooters and added a prized freshman.

In our first game, we shot 45.8% on threes.

There are many problems we have, but three point shooting isn't one of them. We had a bad game, that happens.

This is a typical dumb, knee jerk statement.
 
RJKarl said:
This is a MORONIC post. Last year we shot 38.7% on threes as a team. This was good enough for third in the ACC and returned three of our Top 4 shooters and added a prized freshman.

In our first game, we shot 45.8% on threes.

There are many problems we have, but three point shooting isn't one of them. We had a bad game, that happens.

This is a typical dumb, knee jerk statement.
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Not saying I completely disagree, but it's a lot easier to shoot 3s when Collins is sucking the whole defense in to the paint, as compared to the utter black hole we have now.
 
Well, since we shot 45.8% from 3 and still lost to a Sunbelt team, I don't think we should be hanging our hat on 3 point shooting.
 
It is easier with Collins, but the offensive set creates lots of open looks with whomever is in there. 3 pt shooting is likely our #1 strength.

Saying "The team still can't shoot straight" is totally moronic, knee jerk and without any sanity.

If you know anything at all about our team, you can't say this and be taken seriously.
 
We missed a lot of 3s last night that were just bad shots.

We also missed a bunch of wide open 3s in rhythm.

Arians was, by far, the best 3 point shooter on the team last year AND we have no Collins for spacing anymore (as Ayo pointed out).

Our 3pt shooting is probably going to take a step back this year... That's not the biggest problem we have (of course), but we are going to have a lot of nights where the shooting is off and we look terrible on offense. Last night was one of them.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
Well, since we shot 45.8% from 3 and still lost to a Sunbelt team, I don't think we should be hanging our hat on 3 point shooting.
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WTF are you saying? It's what kept us IN the game.

That's as stupid a statement as we can't shoot.
 
RJKarl said:
WTF are you saying? It's what kept us IN the game.

That's as stupid a statement as we can't shoot.
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I'm saying our "great" 3 point shooting isn't going to win us many games if we can shoot 45.8% and still not beat a Sunbelt team, that's not hard to understand.
 
DeacsATS said:
We missed a lot of 3s last night that were just bad shots.

We also missed a bunch of wide open 3s in rhythm.

Arians was, by far, the best 3 point shooter on the team last year AND we have no Collins for spacing anymore (as Ayo pointed out).

Our 3pt shooting is probably going to take a step back this year... That's not the biggest problem we have (of course), but we are going to have a lot of nights where the shooting is off and we look terrible on offense. Last night was one of them.
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Actually Keyshawn was our best three point shooter last season at 45.8% (this was good enough for #3 in the ACC). Arians was #16 in the ACC at 41.3%.
 
morrison2951 said:
2/17 3 pt shooting last night :eek:

The team still can't shoot straight.

Quit chucking up bombs and get paint touches at the rim.

And REBOUND!
Click to expand...
Can’t rebound because the moron has 6 bigs on the bench and plays 4 guards and one big.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
I'm saying our "great" 3 point shooting isn't going to win us many games if we can shoot 45.8% and still not beat a Sunbelt team, that's not hard to understand.
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It's the ONLY thing that kept us in the game. Not understanding this is beyond comprehension.

We returned 3 of our Top 4-3 pt shooters, a group that was #3 in the ACC last year.

As I've been saying since Dinos left, the reason it's going to be a long season is the inside game. Three point shooting is what will keep us in games.
 
RJKarl said:
Actually Keyshawn was our best three point shooter last season at 45.8% (this was good enough for #3 in the ACC). Arians was #16 in the ACC at 41.3%.
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This is true. I just had a man-crush on Arians.

I guess my point is that when we hit 3s, it will cover up that we suck at a lot of other things on the offensive end. When we don't, we will lose badly.

As an aside, I can't believe you just used statistics to prove I was wrong about a statement I made. Kudos.
 
RJKarl said:
It's the ONLY thing that kept us in the game. Not understanding this is beyond comprehension.

We returned 3 of our Top 4-3 pt shooters, a group that was #3 in the ACC last year.

As I've been saying since Dinos left, the reason it's going to be a long season is the inside game. Three point shooting is what will keep us in games.
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What's not to understand that if an ACC has to shoot 45.8% from 3, just to stay in the game against a Sunbelt team, that team has so many problems that 3 point shooting isn't even worth mentioning at this point. Unless some other things change a lot, 3 point shooting isn't going to keep us in games against even a decent level of major conference competition.
 
Manning suffers from what most NBA coaches that try to move to college ball do. I know he spent some time at Kansas but his foundation is NBA.

NBA teams want to get a wide open jumper and the job is done. The shooters are close to fantastic and the rebounders block out almost all of the time. In college ball you need to structure your game to go and get offensive boards. You can't depend on making enough jump shots.

The NBA coach does not have to coach passion and confidence. Those guys are doing their job and know what they are doing. College coaches need to teach foundational techniques but they also need to inspire confidence and passion to 18-22 year old kids who do not necessarily have it. Manning recruits better but otherwise he suffers from the same problems as BZ and Sidney Lowe.

We need a head coach that came up through the college ranks.
 
knowell said:
Manning suffers from what most NBA coaches that try to move to college ball do. I know he spent some time at Kansas but his foundation is NBA.

NBA teams want to get a wide open jumper and the job is done. The shooters are close to fantastic and the rebounders block out almost all of the time. In college ball you need to structure your game to go and get offensive boards. You can't depend on making enough jump shots.

The NBA coach does not have to coach passion and confidence. Those guys are doing their job and know what they are doing. College coaches need to teach foundational techniques but they also need to inspire confidence and passion to 18-22 year old kids who do not necessarily have it. Manning recruits better but otherwise he suffers from the same problems as BZ and Sidney Lowe.

We need a head coach that came up through the college ranks.
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A lot of good points in that post.
 
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