• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Ancestry.com/23andme3.com Thread

Don't be a snarky asshole.

Calling family members of people who were murdered due to their faith and telling them that a total stranger decided to change your dead family member's faith and then try to tell you that your faith has been changed by a stranger is below contemptible.

This caused heartache to many thousands of people. But you can be snarky about it.

Very classy...
 
There’s also the matter of personal beliefs vs. institutional culture.

It’s generally a bad idea to hold a negative stereotype about a religious group based on the conduct of a few fundamentalist practitioners or based on organizational conduct from a group that claims to represent the religious group...
 
It's the ruling body of the faith and of a faith who uses ruling bodies extensively. The father of one of the guys we played ball with for years was on the committee that oversaw where people on their missions. Yes, your concepts of rewarding and punishing for the destinations of the faithful does exist.

Baptism of the dead is an accepted tenet of the religion.

"BYU Religious Studies professor Randy Bott has suggested that God denied the priesthood to black men in order to protect them from the lowest rung of hell, since one of few damnable sins is to abuse the exercise of the priesthood. Bott compared the priesthood ban to a parent denying young children the keys to the family car, stating: "You couldn’t fall off the top of the ladder, because you weren’t on the top of the ladder. So, in reality the blacks not having the priesthood was the greatest blessing God could give them."

Are many Mormons good people? Of course, but that doesn't excuse many of the rules of the religion.
 
RJKarl said:
It's the ruling body of the faith and of a faith who uses ruling bodies extensively. The father of one of the guys we played ball with for years was on the committee that oversaw where people on their missions. Yes, your concepts of rewarding and punishing for the destinations of the faithful does exist.

Baptism of the dead is an accepted tenet of the religion.

"BYU Religious Studies professor Randy Bott has suggested that God denied the priesthood to black men in order to protect them from the lowest rung of hell, since one of few damnable sins is to abuse the exercise of the priesthood. Bott compared the priesthood ban to a parent denying young children the keys to the family car, stating: "You couldn’t fall off the top of the ladder, because you weren’t on the top of the ladder. So, in reality the blacks not having the priesthood was the greatest blessing God could give them."

Are many Mormons good people? Of course, but that doesn't excuse many of the rules of the religion.
Click to expand...

I'm just saying that demonizing people on the basis of faith is a slippery slope. The Church itself endorses and advocates for a lot of policies that I don't agree with, but I would never start talking about the Mormons as a people or as a faith as architects of a massive data conspiracy. Our people have been accused of that on occasion, too, and I hope that we can agree that it's bad practice in both cases.
 
I never said anything like that.

My first statement was not to give Mormons family information as they have a history of using that information in disgraceful ways. Plus, "baptizing the dead" is something that is taught.
 
RJKarl said:
I never said anything like that.
Click to expand...

You're right. I made it up.

Bruh, people have claimed that our people control the media and the press, start all wars, and are responsible for just about every economic misfortune in the history of mankind. It's just a bad look to say stuff like "don't trust the mormons with your information!!!!"

Especially when the facts don't support your claim:

Also on Wednesday, the church released a letter reiterating its policy that “without exception, church members must not submit for proxy temple ordinances any names from unauthorized groups, such as celebrities and Jewish Holocaust victims.”

In proxy baptism, a living Mormon immerses himself or herself in a baptismal font on behalf of a dead person. A church spokesman, Michael Otterson, said Friday that the ritual was done in the spirit of love, and that people’s souls were free not to become Mormons.

“The sentiment is one of inclusiveness and reaching out, that God loves all his children,” Mr. Otterson said. “We make this offering to them, and they have the agency in the next life to accept or reject the offering.”

Church policy is that people baptize only their own dead relatives, hence the baptism of Anne Frank and Mr. Pearl both violated church policy. According to Mr. Otterson, the Mormon who baptized Anne Frank intentionally misused the church’s Internet-based software.

“With Anne Frank,” Mr. Otterson said, “this person tried to enter the name, found it was rejected, then created a duplicate record and falsified information to submit the record. And our system didn’t catch it.”

He said the perpetrator’s account had been suspended.
Click to expand...

So, baptizing celebrities and victims of the holocaust is not condoned by the church, even if baptizing dead relatives is accepted.
 
Except it happened recently.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ism-lds-church

This was last year:

"Mormons have recently posthumously baptised at least 20 Holocaust victims, Humphrey Bogart, Marilyn Monroe and the Queen Mother, according to a researcher who has spent two decades monitoring the church’s massive genealogical database."

https://religionnews.com/2017/12/21/...caust-victims/

"SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Mormons are posthumously baptizing Holocaust victims as well as grandparents of public figures like Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton and Steven Spielberg, despite church rules intended to restrict the ceremonies to a member’s ancestors, according to a researcher who has spent two decades monitoring the church’s massive genealogical database."

Here's from 2012:

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/03/u...s-beliefs.html

"Although the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints promised in 1995 to stop including Holocaust victims in its ritual, the church admitted last week that Anne Frank had been “baptized” in a Mormon church in the Dominican Republic. On Wednesday, The Boston Globe reported that Daniel Pearl, a reporter for The Wall Street Journal who was kidnapped and killed by terrorists in Pakistan in early 2002, was baptized last June in Twin Falls, Idaho; Mr. Pearl was Jewish."

"Laura A. Baum, an Ohio rabbi who runs OurJewishCommunity.org, an online community, said that even though proxy baptism did not actually accomplish anything, it still had the power to offend.

“It’s important to say that in some ways it’s meaningless,” Rabbi Baum said. “But it’s also religiously arrogant. I think words matter. Their doing their rituals could be insulting to the families of people whose relatives are being baptized. In the case of people who died during the Holocaust, they were killed because of their religious identity, and now another group is confusing the story.”

My bad you know EVERY-FUCKING thing!!!!

You are a goddamned GENIUS. How could I possibly dare to question you! You are ALWAYS right and make sure the rest of us know it.

We should bow at your feet.
 
HailToTheDeacons said:
Long story short, she's my Dad's biological cousin (and thus, actually my second cousin) and has all but confirmed who my biological Grandfather is! Now, I need to forge some connections on the maternal side.
Click to expand...

Technically, your father's cousin is your first cousin once removed. Her children and you would be second cousins.
 
Mormons “change” the imaginary God of dead people.

Jews mutilate baby genitals.

Both sides.
 
RJKarl said:
Are many religious people good people? Of course, but that doesn't excuse many of the rules of their religion.
Click to expand...

And as far as fucked up shit done by religious people, I’d put the Mormon shit described on this thread well below gay-conversion therapy, setting up an apartheid state, blowing up buildings, etc.
 
Who cares if others have been worse? It's totally irrelevant to what they have done.
 
RJKarl said:
Who cares if others have been worse? It's totally irrelevant to what they have done.
Click to expand...

True. Just trying to provide a sense of scale. All religions suck, the ones with political power do more damage. Cold calling people and essentially forcing them to relive past trauma is fucked up. But on the scale of fucked up things it’s pretty small.
 
JamesSokolove said:
Since RJ brought up the MORMON thing. I found something out about the MORMON faith that is unlike any faith I know. If you walk by a church, synagogue, temple, mosque or other house of faith, people welcome you to come in any see the facility or join their ceremony. Non-MORMONS are NOT allowed inside MORMONTemples.

This is even weirder when you consider every MORMOM is supposed spend two years converting people to their faith.

I consider MORMOMS slightly above Scientologists.

When your "institution" is founded on racism and sexism, that "institution" doesn't deserve respect. The only reason the MORMONS theoretically gave up polygamy was to get Utah into the US. There are STILL many MORMONS who practice polygamy. It took being scared about losing their non-profit status to change their racial bigotry in the late 70s. Then, the church attacked Jews. SORRY, their history is filed with sketchy actions taken by their leaders.

There aren't many good people who are MORMONS, and their church is despicable. The way they treat Non-WHITES is disgraceful.
Click to expand...

Don't confuse the temples with the run-of-the-mill churchs. There aren't a lot of dedicated Temples in LDS. I've been lucky enough to get a tour of a temple before it was dedicated (non-Mormons can't go inside a temple once it has been dedicated) and it was very impressive inside-- a beautiful structure, if not a bit weird.

That having been said, be quiet, RJ. I was enjoying this thread. If you want to bash LDS, create a thread dedicated to bashing LDS and making fun of their underwear. I'm sure you still have some latent frustration built up over Romney in 2008. As far as the topic of this thread, LDS has been an invaluable resource for many years now for people into genealogy. If they want to posthumously baptize my dead relatives, I don't really give a shit and neither do my dead relatives. If the tradeoff to that is that I get to use their resources, I think I'm winning that trade.
 
ELC, you couldn't be more wrong about Romney or about dead relatives. Your relatives weren't turned into slave labor then murdered due to their faith.

You are right about temples. There are massive temples and then local churches.
 
How do you posthumously baptize someone? Doesn’t that remove the fundamental elements of salvation? Repentance and accepting JC as your savior.

Jesus Christ. Nobody knows less about religion than religious people. At least understand the fairy tale you’re selling.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top