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Safety vs. Touchback

Honestly this was the defining play of the game, because they had a ton of momentum after that stop. Then Hines got hurt on that play, at least he went to the locker room, and I never saw him on the sidelines again. They couldn’t get the edge on outside runs without him.
 
Muffing =/= batting. Batting a punted ball is not legal, pretty sure.

Batted ball also not possessed?


[im not a rules nerd or expert, just enjoying the discussion]
 
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So I looked it up. The penalty for batting the punt into the end zone would be half the distance between spot of foul and goal which makes sense. Would be dumb to do unless it was muffed and you were trying to prevent the defense from recovering.
 
Very dumb rule. They gained yardage by muffing a punt. Should either be a safety or go back to where it was first touched by the receiving team.
 
I don't think it's really dumb. It's just how punts work. Same as not being able to advance a muffed punt. Just is what it is. On a punt you either down it, or tackle the receiver, or recover the muffed punt (and don't advance). We didn't do any of that. It's not really rewarding the receiving team. They don't have to catch a punt. They could try and let it bounce into end zone or risk it being downed at the 1. In this case they were at risk of turning over but we didn't get the ball.
 
It is an idiotic rule. It essentially gives the receiving team a pass for making a bad play.
 
If we'd recovered at the one yard line, it's first end goal. If we'd recovered in the endzone, it's a touchback. If Stated had knocked into the endzone, it's either a touchdown or a safety, depending on who recovered. Reason being that State would have changed the impetus of the kick.
 
A muff into the end zone is a touchback. A batting into the end zone would be a penalty prior to the ball entering the end zone.

Possession then fumble would be a live ball.
 
ConnorEl said:
A muff into the end zone is a touchback. A batting into the end zone would be a penalty prior to the ball entering the end zone.

Possession then fumble would be a live ball.
Click to expand...

From the NCAA rule book, Rule 8 scoring

SECTION 7. Responsibility and Impetus
Responsibility
ARTICLE 1. The team responsible for the ball being out of bounds behind
a goal line or being dead in the possession of a player on, above or behind a
goal line is the team whose player carries the ball or imparts an impetus to it
that forces it on, above or across the goal line, or is responsible for a loose ball
being on, above or behind the goal line.
Initial Impetus
ARTICLE 2. a. The impetus imparted by a player who kicks, passes, snaps
or fumbles the ball shall be considered responsible for the ball’s progress in
any direction even though its course is deflected or reversed after striking the
ground or after touching an official or a player of either team (A.R. 6-3-4-III;
A.R. 8-5-1-II, VI and VIII; and A.R. 8-7-2-I-IV).

b. Initial impetus is considered expended and the responsibility for the ball’s
progress is charged to a player:
1. If he kicks a ball not in player possession or bats a loose ball after it
strikes the ground
2. If the ball comes to rest and he gives it new impetus by any contact
with it, other than through forced touching (Rule 2-11-4-c).
c. A loose ball retains its original status when there is new impetus
 
tigerswood said:
Very dumb rule. They gained yardage by muffing a punt. Should either be a safety or go back to where it was first touched by the receiving team.
Click to expand...

This. the punt returner was at the 15 yard line when he muffed it and State ended up getting the ball at the 20. The ruled rewarded state for fucking up.
 
My comments reflect my understanding of a legally punted ball that, until possessed, cannot become a safety.

And muffing is by definition not possessing. Nor is batting (an unpossesed punted ball).
 
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Well, we had the opportunity to possess the muffed (never possessed) ball. We did not and it went into the end zone unpossesed. Thus a touchback.
 
Spot the Wonder said:
If we'd recovered at the one yard line, it's first end goal. If we'd recovered in the endzone, it's a touchback. If Stated had knocked into the endzone, it's either a touchdown or a safety, depending on who recovered. Reason being that State would have changed the impetus of the kick.
Click to expand...

Not true. Would be a touchback even if state knocked it in if accidentally. If on purpose a penalty half distance to goal from where it was batted.

ConnorEl said:
Well, we had the opportunity to possess the muffed (never possessed) ball. We did not and it went into the end zone unpossesed. Thus a touchback.
Click to expand...

This is how I feel. It's a punt in the end zone. It's a touchback. It's the the rule. If we wanted the ball we should have grabbed it before it went in the end zone. I notice no one is complaining about the fumble in the end zone rule this week.
 
Spot the Wonder said:
From the NCAA rule book, Rule 8 scoring

SECTION 7. Responsibility and Impetus
Responsibility
ARTICLE 1. The team responsible for the ball being out of bounds behind
a goal line or being dead in the possession of a player on, above or behind a
goal line is the team whose player carries the ball or imparts an impetus to it
that forces it on, above or across the goal line, or is responsible for a loose ball
being on, above or behind the goal line.
Initial Impetus
ARTICLE 2. a. The impetus imparted by a player who kicks, passes, snaps
or fumbles the ball shall be considered responsible for the ball’s progress in
any direction even though its course is deflected or reversed after striking the
ground or after touching an official or a player of either team (A.R. 6-3-4-III;
A.R. 8-5-1-II, VI and VIII; and A.R. 8-7-2-I-IV).

b. Initial impetus is considered expended and the responsibility for the ball’s
progress is charged to a player:
1. If he kicks a ball not in player possession or bats a loose ball after it
strikes the ground
2. If the ball comes to rest and he gives it new impetus by any contact
with it, other than through forced touching (Rule 2-11-4-c).
c. A loose ball retains its original status when there is new impetus
Click to expand...

That is all in reference to a loose ball. A muffed punt is not a loose ball. It has its own rules.
 
Yeah. That rule has to do with fumbles or passes in the air etc. not a muffed punt. Or a kick off for that matter.
 
stupid rule

makes far less sense than the endzone touchback rule
 
Turd Ferguson said:
Not true. Would be a touchback even if state knocked it in if accidentally. If on purpose a penalty half distance to goal from where it was batted.



This is how I feel. It's a punt in the end zone. It's a touchback. It's the the rule. If we wanted the ball we should have grabbed it before it went in the end zone. I notice no one is complaining about the fumble in the end zone rule this week.
Click to expand...

We recovered the fumble in the end zone. It would have been BS if the ball had just gone out.

As far as the muff, it's crazy that there is a situation and spot on the field where it doesn't matter who recovers a live ball.
 
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