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Safety vs. Touchback

I was at that game at Air Force and as I remember Duncan (who I believe was a freshman at that time) tried to field the punt when he was already in the end zone and it was clear he was not going to try to run it out as the coverage was good after a high punt with a longer hang time. That really made it infuriating as there was absolutely no up side to him fielding that punt so there was great risk with no reward. I don't know if the rule was changed or not but it made sense to all of us that it was an AF touchdown. I believe we had a related type situation in the NC State game where one of their receivers on our kick off tried to field the punt in their end zone and muffed it and was able to recover it before it rolled past the goal to the one yard line. My belief is if we recovered it in the end zone it would be a touchdown and if we recovered it on their one yard line Wake would have it first and goal. Am I wrong?
And I've been watching college football for over 60 years and had no idea of the touchback rule as interpreted in our game. Btw, doesn't Air Force still owe us a return game. I thought it was delayed due to Grobe's and Calhoun's coaching connection at AF, Ohio and Wake.
 
OK, I thought part of the definition of a live ball was that it could, potentially, be possessed and advanced by either team. So I thought a muffed punt was a "touched" ball, recoverable but not advanceable by the kicking team. So maybe not "live". But I see the more broad definition of "live" is a ball that is in play. And a punted ball is potentially possessable and advanceable by the kicking team--IF first possessed and fumbled (not touched or muffed) by the receiving team. After the punted ball crosses the line of scrimmage.

So yea, a touched/muffed punt is "live" (not yet dead), recoverable but not advanceable by the kicking team (a caught punt then fumbled would be advanceable).

Looks like in high school the punt is always dead when it crosses the end zone so not returnable even if caught. But not so in college. Right?
 
ChaosDeac said:
I am an advocate of muffed punts inside the 20 yard line taking on a rule similar to that of late 4th qtr fumble rules: A muffed punt should never result in positive yardage automatically, so that a muff wouldn't provide positive yardage unless the team recovers a forward muffed punt OR the team recovers a backwards muffed punt & advances it. Basically, if a punt is muffed and goes into the end zone, it would be returned to the spot of the muff, not to the 20 yard line.
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seems reasonable, or maybe they could do it like PI where it gets placed on the two or something?
 
The stupid part of the rule is the fact that a muffed punt is a live ball, recoverable by the kicking team, as long as it is in the field of play, but magically is no longer such once it rolls into the end zone??
 
scooter84 said:
The stupid part of the rule is the fact that a muffed punt is a live ball, recoverable by the kicking team, as long as it is in the field of play, but magically is no longer such once it rolls into the end zone??
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Read the whole thread. It's not magic. Any kick or punt is dead and a touchback once it its the endzone.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
Read the whole thread. It's not magic. Any kick or punt is dead and a touchback once it its the endzone.
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I read it. It is magic and it makes no sense. Once the punt has been touched by the receiving team it should be a live ball and recoverable as long as it hasn't gone out of bounds. That only makes sense.
 
Meh. It's not just any part of the playing field. It's the magical place where touchdowns are scored, and safeties happen, where holding results in a safety and pass interference results in the ball placed at the 1 (NFL), and fumbles out of bounds and kicks result in touchbacks. The endzone has always had it's unique rules.

This rule is perfectly consistent with all the rules about a kicked ball. I mean I guess if you think it'd be a good idea to change it that's cool, but calling it a crazy or stupid rule doesn't make much sense to me either. I suppose we could get rid of the rule that muffed punts can't be advanced by the kicking team, and we could get rid of the rule that punts first touched by the kicking team can be returned without risk of penalty or loss to the receiving team (same for missed field goals).

If you want to talk about stupid rules, I think it's stupid that the offense can gain yards on a fumble forward, even a TD in the endzone. That rewards the offensive player for fumbling.
 
Yeah, there is no consistent logic when if the kicking team recovers it at the 1 yard line it is their ball, 1st and goal from the 1 yard line, but if the kicking team recovers it a YARD CLOSER to their endzone (in the endzone), then it is not only NOT their ball, but it the other team gets 20 yards added to their field position (touchback and therefore receiving team receives a ball they DIDNT recover on the 20 yard line). It is a dumb rule, and makes no sense. If the ball is live, it is live. Should be a touchback or a safety if it is recovered and downed in the endzone depending on the team that recovers it.
 
Wrangor said:
Yeah, there is no consistent logic when if the kicking team recovers it at the 1 yard line it is their ball, 1st and goal from the 1 yard line, but if the kicking team recovers it a YARD CLOSER to their endzone (in the endzone), then it is not only NOT their ball, but it the other team gets 20 yards added to their field position (touchback and therefore receiving team receives a ball they DIDNT recover on the 20 yard line). It is a dumb rule, and makes no sense. If the ball is live, it is live. Should be a touchback or a safety if it is recovered and downed in the endzone depending on the team that recovers it.
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Yep. Pretty obvious.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
bruh, you're the only one who thinks the rule is logically consistent
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Wrangor said:
Yeah, there is no consistent logic when if the kicking team recovers it at the 1 yard line it is their ball, 1st and goal from the 1 yard line, but if the kicking team recovers it a YARD CLOSER to their endzone (in the endzone), then it is not only NOT their ball, but it the other team gets 20 yards added to their field position (touchback and therefore receiving team receives a ball they DIDNT recover on the 20 yard line). It is a dumb rule, and makes no sense. If the ball is live, it is live. Should be a touchback or a safety if it is recovered and downed in the endzone depending on the team that recovers it.
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There's nothing inconsistent or illogical. It's all very logical actually. Apparently unpopular but not illogical. You may be looking for something like "it doesn't seem fair" but illogical it's not. Maybe way back when they didn't have punt receiving specialists and there were lots of muffed punts and they didn't want so many cheap scores by the punting team. I mean a punt happens as a result of the offense not being able to move the ball. So how much do you really want to reward that? Who knows. I'm not all that passionate about it one way or the other. but it's consistent and logical and inline with lots of other rules regarding the endzone, possession, and kicks, so you'd probably want to go ahead and change several more rules while you're at it. I'm not a football ref but I am an official in another sport and I think rules are interesting. And have come to an awareness that most coaches, players, and especially fans are pretty ignorant about the rules.
 
MysteryMen said:
Not to play devil's advocate, but I guess the theory is that the end zone is not in the field of play. If the kicking team recovers a ball in bounds then it's their ball. If they recover it six inches over the sideline then the receiving team keeps the ball.

This is the only way it's logically consistent to me. Still a dumb rule.
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True. And also if a punt is downed at the 1 then it's downed at the one. If it roles one more yard it comes out to the twenty. The endzone is complicated.
 
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