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Bullshit Fox News Says

ImTheCaptain said:
indeed, i think your own posts refute your assertion that private marketplace is a modern convention
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I didn’t claim that it was a modern convention did I? I only claim that it is neither natural nor inevitable.
 
I don't think anybody is arguing that more primitive forms of capitalism operate in exactly the same fashion as current capitalism.

But the basic tenets of capitalism are pretty much as old as civilization itself.
 
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We should save these takes so when Progressive reforms sweep through they can’t claim that AOC destroyed capitalism because there is still a private marketplace.
 
PhDeac said:
We should save these takes so when Progressive reforms sweep through they can’t claim that AOC destroyed capitalism because there is still a private marketplace.
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We can stop just short of that and say she destroyed the economy.
 
Strickland33 said:
I guess I'm just not a fan of historical reductionism when discussing history, but sure the form has existed in a somewhat loose sense for awhile. The "science" of history is to compare modes of production over time, how each understood economic activity, the relationship between public and private, and the ideological and moral apparatus that justified and sustained economic behavior. Myu point is only that what we understand as late capitalism is not a natural phenomenon or set of relations. I suppose that this a controversial take in these parts.



How did credit work, though?

How were markets maintained?

Were norms and values of exchange and commerce similar then as they were now?

Did private ownership of the means of production - and its relation to citizenship - function in a similar way as they have since the advent of industrial capitalism?

What was the relationship between the public and private sphere then as opposed to now (not to mention in any number of important intermediary historical moments)?

Were global marketplaces functioning similarly as they do in the age of truly global supply chains?

Have conceptions of economic action and economic actors remained consistent over time?

Scholars such as Marx, Smith, Arendt, and Weber, among others, offer a variety of interesting answers to these questions. I don't pretend to know all of the answers. I'm not sure that any of us should, either.
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your questions here are ones of scale, mostly. Modern technologies that leverage faster communication and transportation, that allow for mass exploitation of resources and ever increasingly complex legal theory and have created a more complex version of trade markets that existed for hundreds, if not thousands of years.
 
My bet is that the end of the day that next corporate tax reform will have us about where Obama proposed with a world wide minimum tax in the upper teens and a corporate tax rate in the mid to upper 20s but more revenue neutral.
 
I'm only pushing back on this because the the idea that Capitalism is modern "problem" to solve because it's unnatural is kind of a farce. Recorded history is a long story of private/public economic partnership.

It may not be inevitable or constant but it's closer to natural for civilizations than not-natural
 
birdman said:
Jesus, catamount. She a smart woman with actual policy ideas who was legitimately elected. She is basically the antithesis of Trump.
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Agreed, and that's without mentioning that she's only 29 years old and has just been elected to her first political office, and is thus a political rookie who's learning the ropes, as opposed to Trump, who is 72 years old and has been a celebrity and public figure since the 1980s. I'll give her a pass while she learns the system. Given how media savvy she is - she gives as good as she takes when it comes to Fox and other Trumpites attacking her - I think they'll find her a more difficult target as compared to olds like Pelosi and Hillary.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
I'm only pushing back on this because the the idea that Capitalism is modern "problem" to solve because it's unnatural is kind of a farce. Recorded history is a long story of private/public economic partnership.

It may not be inevitable or constant but it's closer to natural for civilizations than not-natural
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“Recorded history” is important there.

I think people here are using a much looser definition of capitalism than I’ve heard from all but the furthest left.
 
PhDeac said:
“Recorded history” is important there.

I think people here are using a much looser definition of capitalism than I’ve heard from all but the furthest left.
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Who are you referring to, Ph?
 
PhDeac said:
“Recorded history” is important there.

I think people here are using a much looser definition of capitalism than I’ve heard from all but the furthest left.
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Your right it's almost like there were effects of us going from hunter gathers, to a civilized populous. Capitalism being one of them.
 
Highland Deac said:
Agreed, and that's without mentioning that she's only 29 years old and has just been elected to her first political office, and is thus a political rookie who's learning the ropes, as opposed to Trump, who is 72 years old and has been a celebrity and public figure since the 1980s. I'll give her a pass while she learns the system. Given how media savvy she is - she gives as good as she takes when it comes to Fox and other Trumpites attacking her - I think they'll find her a more difficult target as compared to olds like Pelosi and Hillary.
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Right, because Hillary and Pelosi make the mistake of falling back on rational thought, provable statements, and logic. AOC plays the new game, and it is a model that works for sure.
 
I’m no expert on AOC.

But I’ve been watching Trump for decades.

And I’m confident any similarities are dwarfed by the differences.
 
ConnorEl said:
I’m no expert on AOC.

But I’ve been watching Trump for decades.

And I’m confident any similarities are dwarfed by the differences.
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They both live in the New York metropolitan area. What else am I missing?
 
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