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Trump Pays Porn Stars Hush Money

RChildress107 said:
This view always struck me as so weird. Judgement with no conviction and tolerance with no compassion.
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I believe a woman should ultimately be in control of their own body over a legislative body primarily comprised of old men. I wish folks rarely chose abortions. It’s not my place to force someone to the choice I would personally make. Especially when my body is incapable of being pregnant.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
I believe a woman should ultimately be in control of their own body over a legislative body primarily comprised of old men. I wish folks rarely chose abortions. It’s not my place to force someone to the choice I would personally make. Especially when my body is incapable of being pregnant.
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Why? To me Abortion has to fall in one of three categories (hint: it’s the first one).

1. It’s like any other sort of body modification (boobs, nose, piercings, etc.), not for everyone, not an easy decision, and some might have religious objections but ultimately, who gives a shit.

2. It’s like drugs, alcohol, or other self-destructive behavior, not for everyone and arguably morally wrong to do to yourself, but ultimately not harming other people.

3. It’s Murder.

If it’s #3 then being pro-choice makes you evil, if #1 then saying “it’s terrible” makes you a judgmental prick, if #2 then it makes you a buzzkill
 
RC, you’re a judgmental prick and a buzzkill.
 
I find that the primary factor in positions on abortion is when you believe life starts. If you believe that life starts at fertilization, then I can see reconciling finding abortion to be wrong while also still supporting women’s right to choose. I don’t agree, but I don’t think that it’s a contradiction in positions.
 
AsesinoDeTortugas said:
I find that the primary factor in positions on abortion is when you believe life starts. If you believe that life starts at fertilization, then I can see reconciling finding abortion to be wrong while also still supporting women’s right to choose. I don’t agree, but I don’t think that it’s a contradiction in positions.
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Which makes no sense for two reasons. 1. When life starts is a matter of biological fact, not subjective belief. 2. When human life starts is meaningless to the debate.

What people actually care about, though they aren’t able to articulate it so they just say life, is when personhood begins, or when the sole attaches, or when the human body gains moral significance, however you want to phrase it.

Before that point, feeling icky about destroying a soulless, consciousless, morally insignificant mass of human cells seems silly.

After that point, thinking one person should have the choice to exterminate another seems reprehensible.

I think people in the “pro-choice but abortion is terrible” crowd simply aren’t sure where they think that point is.
 
Abortion is a healthy and safe procedure. That’s not an issue.

The personal choice is only about whether or not you would stop your own pregnancy.

Men can’t make that personal choice unless a woman asks us help her make a choice.

The political choice is whether or not women should choose what to do with their own bodies.

A friend of mine from home is super left but a mom of three who grew up in the south. I like the way she put it. “My opinion on abortion changed when I had three kids. I can’t support anyone making that decision. But it’s much worse for men to try to tell women what to do. That truly makes me angry.”
 
RChildress107 said:
Which makes no sense for two reasons. 1. When life starts is a matter of biological fact, not subjective belief. 2. When human life starts is meaningless to the debate.

What people actually care about, though they aren’t able to articulate it so they just say life, is when personhood begins, or when the sole attaches, or when the human body gains moral significance, however you want to phrase it.

Before that point, feeling icky about destroying a soulless, consciousless, morally insignificant mass of human cells seems silly.

After that point, thinking one person should have the choice to exterminate another seems reprehensible.

I think people in the “pro-choice but abortion is terrible” crowd simply aren’t sure where they think that point is.
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I agree with all of the above, just giving the devils advocate side.
 
RChildress107 said:
This view always struck me as so weird. Judgement with no conviction and tolerance with no compassion.
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this is just a terrible, terrible take and show absolutely no ability to look at a problem from anyone's perspective except your own. This is how the vast majority of pro-choice people feel. Its not weird at all.
 
SC DEAC said:
this is just a terrible, terrible take and show absolutely no ability to look at a problem from anyone's perspective except your own. This is how the vast majority of pro-choice people feel. Its not weird at all.
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Illogical would have been a better word. At least the anti-abortion view has internal logic (in its extreme forms). I’d be interested to hear from people why they think abortion is “terrible” but not murder. The only thing that would make exterminating a lump of human cells “terrible” would be if that lump of human cells were a person.

It just feels like something a lot of people say because it sounds nice without actually thinking through what it means.
 
No. Not at all. It’s not weird. It’s basic. I respect the right to make a choice even if it’s a choice I wouldn’t make.
 
People can have an abortion and feel fine about the decision and feel bad about it at the same time. I could have a 6 month old right now. Glad I don’t. But I don’t have to celebrate that I don’t.
 
PhDeac said:
No. Not at all. It’s not weird. It’s basic. I respect the right to make a choice even if it’s a choice I wouldn’t make.
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Right. So you’re in category #1. I don’t have any tattoos and doubt I ever will, but I don’t think it’s “terrible” when other people get them.
 
palmab03 said:
People can have an abortion and feel fine about the decision and feel bad about it at the same time. I could have a 6 month old right now. Glad I don’t. But I don’t have to celebrate that I don’t.
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Few things in this world cooler than a 6 month old though.
 
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The only reason people feel terrible about the choice is because of the culture society has built around the concept of abortion. Abortion is actually a totally natural thing that happenes all the time, involuntarily, only we call that miscarriage. The body decides that for some reason it is not the right time to carry out a pregnancy, maybe there is something wrong with the fetus, or maybe to mother is malnourished, so it aborts the fetus. The brain and the endocrine system make the choice for you in those cases without bothering the conscious mind. In an abortion the conscious mind gets involved but it really is a similar process.
 
Please don’t share this information publically Birdman. It will only lead to the far right calling for a ban on miscarriages.
 
Junebug said:
Do you feel bad when you see a bird die? How about if you happen to kill one, knowingly or unkowingly?
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Are you trying to make a comparison? If so, you should you ask “Do you feel bad when you see someone eat eggs?”
 
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