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Should Manning be canned at the end of the season?

Shit canning manning?

  • Yes

    Votes: 53 27.5%

  • No

    Votes: 130 67.4%

  • Hire Kenpom & the 7 Dwarves

    Votes: 10 5.2%
  • Total voters
    193
  • Poll closed .
RChildress107 said:
Finding 3* big man (who somehow everyone missed on despite him being from Florida and playing on the AAU circuit) and turning him into one of the all time great talents at Wake (strong words) this excelerating your rebuilding process would have you rethinking just about everything you did as a coach? Weird.

Recruiting and developing talent is overwhelmingly the most important aspect of being a successful college coach.
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Winning some games would be nice too! :thumbsup:
 
ManhassetDeac said:
You play smart and hard defense and you win some games you shouldn't. I can't really remember us doing that under Manning. That's what I meant by intensity
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How do you measure smart and hard defense as opposed to just good defense?

Would you rather go 20-12 without winning any games you shouldn’t and losing four that you shouldn’t or 19-13 winning four that you shouldn’t and losing none that you shouldn’t?
 
RChildress107 said:
Best response I’ve seen yet.

If a scholarship opens up and EJ goes elsewhere, I wouldn’t mind grabbing a promising transfer instead of a postgrad. Would be a good hedge against missing out on our top 2019 targets.
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I completely agree with looking for a transfer to help hedge the 2019 class. That would be great. There has to be an unhappy big somewhere.
 
RChildress107 said:
That’s the thing I don’t get about this board’s take on Manning. There is clearly a decent amount of evidence on both sides but the Manning Sucks crowd can’t seem to admit that.

I argue that Manning’s results have been mixed and that the overall trajectory of the program is within range of where it should be and people label me an AD shill. I’ve been critical of Manning’s performance this season and have been pretty consistent in my expectations from day 1 four years ago and have stayed that Manning has to meet a fairly high bar next year or he’s gone. And somehow I’m the delusional one?
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Yep sounds about right.
 
RChildress107 said:
A somewhat related question: What would this team have to do over the rest of this season to make you hopeful for next season?
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Relatively little. 3-3 the rest of the way and a win in the ACC Tourney is my expectation right now.

If we could somehow pull off 4-2, that’d be cool, but doesn’t really change expectations for next year.
 
No dude...winning games, sustainability and every year being in the conversation is what makes for a successful coach.

I will give you this RC...if we had beat K State and played the next game close I'd likely feel a little different about the program.
 
I think the main disagreement most of us have is where we should be in the rebuild. Some people thought, at the time or in retrospect, that it should happen in 1-2 years which reflects a deep lack of understanding of how awful [Redacted] was.

Most had year 4 pegged as the year where things should be back to normal. Some mild success and promising freshman in the 2015 non-conference caused people to abandon reasonable expectations making the 2015 ACC performance seem like a disaster.

The same thing happened in 2016 leading to the absurd argument that Manning underperformed expectations that had been reconfigured because he previously exceeded expectations. Everyone either assumed the rebuild was done or had concluded it would never be done because Manning was a shit coach who would never live up to the expectations he helped inflate.

We are now in year 4. Manning is not meeting expectations. There is no excuse for this but there are some obvious explanations that are easily remedied and appear to have been remedied with the 2017 and 2018 recruiting classes. He doesn’t get a pass for this year, but last year’s performance and competent recruiting have earned him a chance to make up for this year and give hope that he will.
 
RChildress107 said:
I think the main disagreement most of us have is where we should be in the rebuild. Some people thought, at the time or in retrospect, that it should happen in 1-2 years which reflects a deep lack of understanding of how awful [Redacted] was.

Most had year 4 pegged as the year where things should be back to normal. Some mild success and promising freshman in the 2015 non-conference caused people to abandon reasonable expectations making the 2015 ACC performance seem like a disaster.

The same thing happened in 2016 leading to the absurd argument that Manning underperformed expectations that had been reconfigured because he previously exceeded expectations. Everyone either assumed the rebuild was done or had concluded it would never be done because Manning was a shit coach who would never live up to the expectations he helped inflate.

We are now in year 4. Manning is not meeting expectations. There is no excuse for this but there are some obvious explanations that are easily remedied and appear to have been remedied with the 2017 and 2018 recruiting classes. He doesn’t get a pass for this year, but last year’s performance and competent recruiting have earned him a chance to make up for this year and give hope that he will.
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Doesn't this exhaust you? The reason I (jokingly) called you ADShill in one of these threads is the lengths you go to defend/prop up/excuse/promote optimism for/whatever you want to call it, Manning. You're clearly fighting a losing battle with a (rightfully in this case) MFF.

I've been a Wake fan since I could walk and hope Manning is the guy for the job. His overall body of work just leads me to believe he's not. I'll gladly eat crow and buy you a weekend of beers at the Sweet 16 in a year or two if he is.
 
tigerswood said:
Doesn't this exhaust you? The reason I (jokingly) called you ADShill in one of these threads is the lengths you go to defend/prop up/excuse/promote optimism for/whatever you want to call it, Manning. You're clearly fighting a losing battle with a (rightfully in this case) MFF.

I've been a Wake fan since I could walk and hope Manning is the guy for the job. His overall body of work just leads me to believe he's not. I'll gladly eat crow and buy you a weekend of beers at the Sweet 16 in a year or two if he is.
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Nah. I certainly haven’t defended, propped up, or excused Manning’s performance this year. I excused his first two years before he was even hired. I will defend last year’s performance against anyone who claims it fell short of reasonable expectations for year 3.

I don’t even know that I’m promoting optimism. I’m simply asking for clear-headed, objective evaluation based on consistent, reasonable standards that account for the program Manning inherited, not the program we wish he had inherited. If such an evaluation leaves you pessimistic that’s fine with me.

2/3 of the way through the season my optimism is measured at best. I think Manning will get where I’ve said he needs to next year but I’d put my confidence level at 70%.

Either way y’all better believe I’m going to be feeding a lot of crow next year, whether to myself or others remains to be seen.
 
Or, we'll end up being an under-performing bubble team again, losing games we shouldn't, and still having the exact same conversation. My guess is that's what happens.
 
I didn't think we should hire Manning in the first place, but I don't think he needs to go this season. Some of it is bad luck with kids leaving early, some of it is his coaching. The core issue at hand though is that #WellmanOut needs to go first. He's shown no clear indication that he has what it takes to hire the right basketball coach for WFU.
 
tigerswood said:
Or, we'll end up being an under-performing bubble team again, losing games we shouldn't, and still having the exact same conversation. My guess is that's what happens.
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Nope. I think most of the non Manning sucks crowd has been pretty clear that we aren’t going to have this conversation if Manning is lower than an 8 seed.

I don’t doubt that many of you will be making the same complaints next year regardless of the results.
 
Manning outta town if we don't make the round of 32 next year and win a couple top 25 games.
 
I voted "no" because I don't Wellman hiring another basketball coach.
 
gfspencer said:
I voted "no" because I don't Wellman hiring another basketball coach.
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sailordeac said this in two sentences in post 129. gfspencer said it in one sentence. It has been my position on Manning since day one. I suspect if this had been a choice in this poll it would be the leader.

The opinions expressed on Manning's suitability as a coach are simply that. Opinions. Everyone gets to have an opinion on this board and it can be based on any criteria they choose. This board seems more interesting and entertaining when there is a difference of opinions. It gives each of us an opportunity to evaluate our own opinion and criteria.

Manning did set criteria for his own success. He stated that the Deacons would hang their hat on their defense. His words, not mine. From my perspective he has failed in this criteria. Given his post game comments over the past four years, I suspect he might agree. Just an opinion.
 
So far Danny seems to have recruited guys who are morw interested in offense than defense. Whether that is by their inclination or choice or by coaching, Wake under Danny has not been good at defense. Until rhat changes, Wake won't be a really good BB team..
 
RChildress107 said:
For reference, to convince me I’m wrong about Manning he would have to fail to meet most of the benchmarks below next year:

KP: 40
Overall: 20 wins
ACC: 9 wins
ACCT: Friday appearance
NCAAT: Top 8 seed

Anyone else bitching about supposed “shifting goalposts” want to commit themselves?
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If he comes anywhere close to the standard you are setting (hell probably anything in the realm of KP 50 or better, a Friday appearance and just getting into the NCAA and flaming out would be enough), then he will most definitely be around for Year 6. However, that doesn't prove that the Mann-OUT camp is wrong...Year 5 could be another exception to the rule.

Because, in all likelihood, if you're Year 5 comes to fruition, then Hoard is also the transformational player we all hope and expect to see in Year 5, which therefore means he is likely to declare early for the NBA. There is no guarantee the bottom won't fall out in Year 6. Obviously the 2019 recruiting class will be a big factor in whether or not we can sustain the success you define above.


But how much would the Deacs have to fall off in Year 6 for y'all Mann-INg folks to not say, "2 NCAA in 5 years, no way you can fire him after a lackluster Year 6?!"
 
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