• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Doral Moore trapping at midcourt

W

wfu22fan

Banhammer'd
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
5,848
Reaction score
612
Moore is the only WF player on the court over 6’2”, there are less than 3 minutes left, we are down 2 and Moore leaves the basket area to trap near half court. This leads to a wide open layup by Moore’s man. Game over. This is a microcosm of the last 4 years. We have a BONEHEAD coach.
 
Oh boy. You made this into its own thread?

Moore was defending Chukwu, who set a pick up top. Moore hedged to block the pick and roll, which is a common defensive tactic. There is a lot to complain about with Manning, but this is pretty low on the list. It’s not like Manning decided he would trap with Moore, and sent him up top to do so.

You could use this as an example of excellent coaching - Boeheim, on the fly, specifically directed this play, and it worked really well. I have not seen this type of very specific late-game instruction from Manning.
 
Rafi said:
Oh boy. You made this into its own thread?

Moore was defending Chukwu, who set a pick up top. Moore hedged to block the pick and roll, which is a common defensive tactic. There is a lot to complain about with Manning, but this is pretty low on the list. It’s not like Manning decided he would trap with Moore, and sent him up top to do so.

You could use this as an example of excellent coaching - Boeheim, on the fly, specifically directed this play, and it worked really well. I have not seen this type of very specific late-game instruction from Manning.
Click to expand...

Also relatively certain (don’t want to go back to watch and check) that we trapped with Moore maybe a minute before and got a steal on an errant pass attempt to the Syracuse big. Maybe it was another big, not positive.
 
Moore wasn’t at the top of the key. He was 30+ feet from the basket. We had 4 small guards on the floor. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to try to get Moore away from the hoop, but it takes an idiot to allow him to do so. Moore shouldn’t be hedging on high ball screens to begin with. He’s too slow to get back in position. And he should never be trapping out at midcourt.
 
Rafi said:
Oh boy. You made this into its own thread?

Moore was defending Chukwu, who set a pick up top. Moore hedged to block the pick and roll, which is a common defensive tactic. There is a lot to complain about with Manning, but this is pretty low on the list. It’s not like Manning decided he would trap with Moore, and sent him up top to do so.

You could use this as an example of excellent coaching - Boeheim, on the fly, specifically directed this play, and it worked really well. I have not seen this type of very specific late-game instruction from Manning.
Click to expand...
We were playing a defensive scheme which called for Moore to leave the basket area when we had 4 guards on the floor. That’s on the coach unless Doral got a wild hair and just decided to run out to trap near midcourt and leave his man and the rim unguarded. He has run back to about the foul line when his man layed it in.
 
wfu22fan said:
We were playing a defensive scheme which called for Moore to leave the basket area when we had 4 guards on the floor. That’s on the coach unless Doral got a wild hair and just decided to run out to trap near midcourt and leave his man and the rim unguarded. He has run back to about the foul line when his man layed it in.
Click to expand...

Yes, that defensive scheme is called man to man defense. The guy he was guarding (Chukwu) ran from under the basket to mid court to set a pick, and Doral went with him.
 
Rafi said:
Yes, that defensive scheme is called man to man defense. The guy he was guarding (Chukwu) ran from under the basket to mid court to set a pick, and Doral went with him.
Click to expand...

That's what he said.
 
PhDeac said:
That's what he said.
Click to expand...

No it’s not. He claimed Moore ran out to mid court to trap. Moore stayed with his man and defended the pick and roll. The pick and roll is an extremely effective offensive set, which is why it is used frequently at all levels of basketball. It forces the defense to pick their poison. If Moore didn’t defend it, the Cuse would have had a wide open ball handler/shooter. Moore could have defended it better, but to act like man to man defense with a hedge into a trap is some outlandish defense approach is odd.
 
Nobody watching that game could understand how we allowed Moore to wander 30+ feet from the basket when he was a foot taller than our other 4 defenders. He should have let his man go out there and wait for him to come back into his scoring zone- within 10-15 feet of the rim. We played right into their hands. It was dumb and it cost us a huge basket when we were only down 2 points. There is no way to justify having Moore ever leaving the lane area to guard someone.
 
Just for 'fun' checked the recording of the game, Chukwu ran all the way out to mid court to set the pick, Moore stayed with him, as soon as Chukwu got there he darted back to the basket, Moore initially stayed to try and trap the ball handler, of course the play left Chukwu a free lane to the basket which is where 'cuse passed the ball.

Say what you want, Moore was following his man when he went 30 ft out. I'm betting DM would not expect his player to do that, since there is nothing Chukwu is doing that far out. Best case Moore should have let him go once Chukwu got above the foul line.

Moore did not go out to trap at mid court, that is a fact based on the tape, if anyone cares to review it.

I think its more of a basketball IQ situation. Moore should know his guy is useless 30 feet from the basket, even if he does the pick out there, we have the defensive advantage because Moore's guy is out of position at that point.
 
Last edited:
Rafi said:
Oh boy. You made this into its own thread?

Moore was defending Chukwu, who set a pick up top. Moore hedged to block the pick and roll, which is a common defensive tactic. There is a lot to complain about with Manning, but this is pretty low on the list. It’s not like Manning decided he would trap with Moore, and sent him up top to do so.

You could use this as an example of excellent coaching - Boeheim, on the fly, specifically directed this play, and it worked really well. I have not seen this type of very specific late-game instruction from Manning.
Click to expand...



Bad strategy. There have been some of us bitching about this for years. The opposing center can shoot all the threes he wants. Moore should never leave the box. Period!
 
Deac83 said:
Just for 'fun' checked the recording of the game, Chukwu ran all the way out to mid court to set the pick, Moore stayed with him, as soon as Chukwu got there he darted back to the basket, Moore initially stayed to try and trap the ball handler, of course the play left Chukwu a free lane to the basket which is where 'cuse passed the ball.

Say what you want, Moore was following his man when he went 30 ft out. I'm betting DM would not expect his player to do that, since there is nothing Chukwu is doing that far out. Best case Moore should have let him go once Chukwu got above the foul line.

Moore did not go out to trap at mid court, that is a fact based on the tape, if anyone cares to review it.

I think its more of a basketball IQ situation. Moore should know his guy is useless 30 feet from the basket, even if he does the pick out there, we have the defensive advantage because Moore's guy is out of position at that point.
Click to expand...
Not BB IQ, it’s dumb coaching. We have DM rountinely leaving the post area to chase his man. That should never happen and it’s on DM. Cuse knew this and lured Moore 30 feet from the basket to score at a critical point in the game. We got outcoached. AGAIN. We are a very poorly coached team that has the talent to win in the ACC but usually comes close and loses.
 
This isn't an unusual strategy.

Two things that made it tough in that particular situation, though:
1- With 4 short guards on the floor, it led to a HUGE mismatch underneath... Another example of why the gigantic hole at PF is killing us.
2- Crawford should have come over immediately to help, but he stood just there (looked like he tried to bait Syracuse to pass it underneath, which they did)... He was late getting over and unable to make the steal. Just coming over in time to get in the passing lane would have done enough to prevent the pass (or at least make it more difficult).
 
I'm not sure why anyone would defend having Moore trapping at mid court while has man is wide open under the basket for what seemed like an eternity.
 
Here's the play. Tried to embed right at the highlight of that play (around 2:13)... Hope it works.



I'm not defending the strategy, I'm just saying it isn't an unusual defensive strategy. And it wouldn't have been so bad if ANYONE had decided to help on the giant guy going to the basket completely uncovered.
 
DeacsATS said:
Here's the play. Tried to embed right at the highlight of that play (around 2:13)... Hope it works.



I'm not defending the strategy, I'm just saying it isn't an unusual defensive strategy. And it wouldn't have been so bad if ANYONE had decided to help on the giant guy going to the basket completely uncovered.
Click to expand...


Crawford is standing in the lane trying to keep tabs on Chukwu and his own man who is standing on the three point line.
 
DeacsATS said:
Here's the play. Tried to embed right at the highlight of that play (around 2:13)... Hope it works.



I'm not defending the strategy, I'm just saying it isn't an unusual defensive strategy. And it wouldn't have been so bad if ANYONE had decided to help on the giant guy going to the basket completely uncovered.
Click to expand...


I really love watching Woods on that play. When the ball leaves the trap he should be in help, which he kinda tries to do by dropping off his man a bit. But when the ball is dribbled toward Wilbekin and Craw has two guys to cover, what does he do? Just stands there guarding nobody, hands to his sides. Only time his hands go up isn't to play defense, it's to whine about the outcome as if he's in disbelief that it just happened. If he'd actually been playing defense that pass can't happen - would have to be a lob over the top which would have been much more difficult and likely given Doral time to recover.

He had the look of someone hoping to not be involved in a crunch-time play. If Chaundee is in that spot it's possibly another turnover.
 
I'm with 22 on this one. This was dumb as shit and speaks to our staff's lack of knowledge about defense, which I believe is going to be a fatal flaw. Absolutely not worth the risk in this situation -- if 'cuse beats the double team, as they did, then they are more or less guaranteed an easy basket at the rim
 
Bottom line: Moore should have been on his man and not at mid court trying to trap. He’s too slow to recover. We don’t need our only rim protector leaving the area of the rim.
 
Doral also took his sweet time getting back to his man. Hard to judge the trap from just that youtube clip, as I'd like to see how Doral got to that spot originally, but it was poorly executed. Crawford should of drop down harder on their big man, which would have led to an open jumper or the white dude. Either way its a very risky stunt to pull when down only two with plenty of time to play. You're either getting a steal or they're getting an open shot. The other two defenders were also not set up to help out efficiently, as they were stuck to their man and not playing the gaps properly. I don't think I'd try that move with the personnel on the court. Maybe have Mitchell out there or a longer wing, with Doral guarding the paint.

I know all of this because I started coaching 8th grade basketball this season, was promoted from assistant to head coach when our parents ran off the retired, former teacher HC, and held the team together enough to go 13-1 and win the conference. So I am an expert.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top