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Wake and A D

knowell said:
Wake has had teams with enough talent to win in basketball. Wake beat eventual national champions year in and year out before Wellman burned down the program.

Wake can be good in football but I don't see a day where Wake will have the talent and depth to win a football championship.
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You may not see it, but saying basketball is "a game we can win in" is true for any college which sucks in sports. All sucky sports schools have more hope in basketball because theoretically you just need five guys and a kick ass coach. But as we've seen, those elements are harder to attain than people are willing to admit.

College soccer requires a lot more than five guys on the field, but we've won national championships and played in title games several times. Football is hard to get established in and many competitive programs have trouble year in and year out, but I think basketball is as hard or harder for us to be prominent because of our poor positioning in the ACC and the fact that our administrators allowed our budding prominence die in a way neither Duke nor UNC would've permitted. Wake has been "a basketball school" by default; not because we're like Duke, UNC or UK.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
...it has been almost 25 years since we have even been remotely relevant in our primary sport. 25 fucking years.
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The excess drama is unnecessary and weakens your argument. To argue that we haven't been "even remotely relevant" in basketball for 25 years is wrong. We were relevant when Josh Howard led us to an ACC regular season championship, when Chris Paul's team was preseason #1 and on every college bball magazine cover, when that same team spent the entire season ranked top 10, and when we were ranked #1 with Teague, Aminu, Johnson, Ish.

There is a lot to discuss and debate regarding our athletic department, and the basketball team in particular. Over-exaggeration is just unnecessary.
 
Lohengrin said:
You may not see it, but saying basketball is "a game we can win in" is true for any college which sucks in sports. All sucky sports schools have more hope in basketball because theoretically you just need five guys and a kick ass coach. But as we've seen, those elements are harder to attain than people are willing to admit.
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Harder than people are willing to admit, perhaps, but infinitely easier than Wellman has made it since Skip died. We have all sorts of advantages over "any college which sucks in sports" that make it a much easier task.
 
The last great move in basketball was the hiring of Dave Odom. Thank you AD Gene Hooks! (who, unlike Ron, attended a top 500 university)
 
Wellman hired Caldwell too. It was his first big hire, IIRC.

Football brings the big bucks, even at a school like Wake. If we were GDO or Skip era competitive, that gap would be closer, but pretty sure football would still win the $ battle. Just going to a shitty bowl game brings in a lot of money, as does being in a P5 conference.

This is the 8th year of Shitsville for our hoops program. I raised an eyebrow briefly last year, but have pretty much tuned out for most of those years for my sanity. The Buzz era was so bad that the IHOP next to campus had to shutter. Think about that for a second. An IHOP within walking distance of a bunch of drunk college kids had to shut down because nobody was going to the games. It didn't help that football was mired in the gutter at the time either. The DM era is, at best, marginally better than the Buzz era. I mean, I like DM a lot better than Buzz because he isn't an Asperger's fuckhead, but his coaching ability seems to be on par with Buzz's. And whatever recruiting inroads he is making with his hope and change philosophy on getting the program turned around isn't going to work much longer because his record speaks for itself. No big wins and consistently outcoached in crunch time. The entire program needs to be gutted, and we will not be able to do that with an ancient AD on the cusp of retirement.

I used to be hardcore during hoops season and now I, along with many others, simply don't care. The extent of my caring is checking the scores and joking that we lost again or being marginally surprised that we beat GT and might overtake them by the end of the year to finish 3rd from last. FURW.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Wellman hired Caldwell too. It was his first big hire, IIRC.

Football brings the big bucks, even at a school like Wake. If we were GDO or Skip era competitive, that gap would be closer, but pretty sure football would still win the $ battle. Just going to a shitty bowl game brings in a lot of money, as does being in a P5 conference.

This is the 8th year of Shitsville for our hoops program. I raised an eyebrow briefly last year, but have pretty much tuned out for most of those years for my sanity. The Buzz era was so bad that the IHOP next to campus had to shutter. Think about that for a second. An IHOP within walking distance of a bunch of drunk college kids had to shut down because nobody was going to the games. It didn't help that football was mired in the gutter at the time either. The DM era is, at best, marginally better than the Buzz era. I mean, I like DM a lot better than Buzz because he isn't an Asperger's fuckhead, but his coaching ability seems to be on par with Buzz's. And whatever recruiting inroads he is making with his hope and change philosophy on getting the program turned around isn't going to work much longer because his record speaks for itself. No big wins and consistently outcoached in crunch time. The entire program needs to be gutted, and we will not be able to do that with an ancient AD on the cusp of retirement.

I used to be hardcore during hoops season and now I, along with many others, simply don't care. The extent of my caring is checking the scores and joking that we lost again or being marginally surprised that we beat GT and might overtake them by the end of the year to finish 3rd from last. FURW.
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Rutgers is where we are headed. Thanks Ron.
 
Shake said:
I'm in with Knowell as to why Wake basketball sucks...expectations have fallen so hard we start using words like "elite" to discuss our basketball coach who has 4 years to get this thing turned around and is 1 win better than our previous coach (before the hate starts just let me say if my choice is DM or Bizz I take DM 10 out of 10 times).

My take as to whats DM done and not done:
- In year 4 not one win over Duke or UNC...to most Wake fans thats a big deal...Staak and Bizz were able to do this
- He's a good developer of big men...not elite. You can google the list of coaches who are elite at this
- As mentioned on another thread Keats who is coaching a team thats leftover from a fired coach and who lost their elite player to the NBA has more ACC away wins in year 1 than DM will have in year 4 and probably go to the dance
- DM is a good recruiter but you can't be a great recruiter until you start winning some effing games. Tacy, Skip and especially GDO were much better recruiters than DM...not even close
- I was at the game yesterday and was just blown away by the total lack of energy in the building. Team shows no emotion during warm ups or intros; crowd not really into it and I dont thing anyone who was there after 5 minutes ever beloved we'd win the game. Its pretty sad when the loudest the Joel gets is for a effing chic filet miss free throw. When I say louder at least twice as loud as any other moment in the game. My God we were playing NC State and we just came out with nothing and gave up 90 to a team that really didn't play that well.

For those whom expect next year's freshman to come in and move us from 13th in the conference to top 6 are absolutely delusional. Wake basketball is in the worst shape in the history of our program because its been going on now for 8 years. We now have 2 types of fans...those who have lowered their expectations to the point where they believe a rebuild takes 5 or 6 years when there are coaches all over the country who fix thongs in 3 years or less. The other group of fans of which I'm a part of no longer care if we win or lose a game. This type fan is the most dangerous to our program. I've been around a while...wins once were so great and losses were crushing. Thats the emotion I want to feel as a fan. I sat there yesterday with a few State fans and never even stood up. I'm tired of other team fans telling me shit like "Wake really showed a lot of heart today", I always pull for Wake...second favorite team. The best one is that DM is learning and if patient he's going to be a tough out someday.

I want to be the Childress/Duncan team that everyone hated.
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This. I loved it when during the Skip years Carolina and Duke fans hated coming to the Joel. Where I work at, college basketball is king. Yes I loved it when Wake won and kicked ass in football and I wore my WF shit with pride but that doesn't resonate like basketball does here. The folks I work with (UNC, Duke, and some State) love a lot of different sports but the one sport that gets everyone talking and happy (unless you are a WF fan) is college basketball. It consistently dominates the day during basketball season.

For the love of god bring in Pat Kelsey or whoever, what's another year or two of rebuilding going to hurt. We've already had damn near a decade of shitty basketball. I'm ready to see a well coached team play hard and with discipline.
 
Rafi said:
The excess drama is unnecessary and weakens your argument. To argue that we haven't been "even remotely relevant" in basketball for 25 years is wrong. We were relevant when Josh Howard led us to an ACC regular season championship, when Chris Paul's team was preseason #1 and on every college bball magazine cover, when that same team spent the entire season ranked top 10, and when we were ranked #1 with Teague, Aminu, Johnson, Ish.

There is a lot to discuss and debate regarding our athletic department, and the basketball team in particular. Over-exaggeration is just unnecessary.
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Agreed. I see and hear it all the time.
 
8-24. 13-18. 13-18. 17-16. 13-19. 11-20. 19-14. 10-17 (and counting). 104-146 overall record. 1-15. 4-12. 6-12. 6-12. 5-13. 2-16. 9-9. 3-12. 36-101 ACC record. 2-8 post season tournament record. The basketball results over the past eight years. The two 20 loss seasons equal the prior total of 20 loss seasons in the history of Wake Forest basketball.

50-91 overall record in nine straight losing seasons from 1928-36, the worst stretch in the history of Wake Forest basketball.

The above is a factual critique of the AD and the basketball program. Numbers don't lie.
 
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Wakefan77 said:
[/B]

This. I loved it when during the Skip years Carolina and Duke fans hated coming to the Joel. Where I work at, college basketball is king. Yes I loved it when Wake won and kicked ass in football and I wore my WF shit with pride but that doesn't resonate like basketball does here. The folks I work with (UNC, Duke, and some State) love a lot of different sports but the one sport that gets everyone talking and happy (unless you are a WF fan) is college basketball. It consistently dominates the day during basketball season.

For the love of god bring in Pat Kelsey or whoever, what's another year or two of rebuilding going to hurt. We've already had damn near a decade of shitty basketball. I'm ready to see a well coached team play hard and with discipline.
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Good post.
 
BlackjackMc said:
8-24. 13-18. 13-18. 17-16. 13-19. 11-20. 19-14. 10-17 (and counting). 104-146 overall record. 1-15. 4-12. 6-12. 6-12. 5-13. 2-16. 9-9. 3-12. 36-101 ACC record. 2-8 post season tournament record. The basketball results over the past eight years. The two 20 loss seasons equal the prior total of 20 loss seasons in the history of Wake Forest basketball.

50-91 overall record in nine straight losing seasons from 1928-36, the worst stretch in the history of Wake Forest basketball.

The above is a factual critique of the AD and the basketball program. Numbers don't lie.
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We are well on our way to another 20 loss season.
 
Wellman is, without a doubt, the most successful athletic director in Wake Forest history. In his 26 years at Wake, we have won 14 national championships. Hooks was the AD for 28 years and won 6 national championships (all in golf). Gibson was the AD for 10 years and won one national championship (baseball), and Weaver was the AD for 17 years and won 2 national championships (both in golf). Wellman also presided over half of our ACC championships in basketball and football.

As I have written on here before, even more important than all of that, he was instrumental in keeping the ACC together (and hence, Wake in a P5 conference) during realignment in 2013. In my opinion, that was his greatest contribution to Wake athletics.

There is also no doubt he screwed up big time by hiring [Redacted].
 
Rafi said:
Wellman is, without a doubt, the most successful athletic director in Wake Forest history. In his 26 years at Wake, we have won 14 national championships. Hooks was the AD for 28 years and won 6 national championships (all in golf). Gibson was the AD for 10 years and won one national championship (baseball), and Weaver was the AD for 17 years and won 2 national championships (both in golf). Wellman also presided over half of our ACC championships in basketball and football.

As I have written on here before, even more important than all of that, he was instrumental in keeping the ACC together (and hence, Wake in a P5 conference) during realignment in 2013. In my opinion, that was his greatest contribution to Wake athletics.

There is also no doubt he screwed up big time by hiring [Redacted].
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And this is the shit the sunshine brigade peddles with a current coach who is equally as bad, if not worse. Just hilarious.
 
coredeac said:
And this is the shit the sunshine brigade peddles with a current coach who is equally as bad, if not worse. Just hilarious.
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Manning has already taken us to the NCAA tournament. He's not nearly as bad a [Redacted]. You've got to get a clue.

With that said, I'm not very impressed with Manning. Years 1, 2, and 4 were/have been rough. I thought he had a good year 3 and I'm OK with giving him next year. If we are not a solid tourny team next year, then I think he should be let go.
 
Rafi said:
Wellman is, without a doubt, the most successful athletic director in Wake Forest history. In his 26 years at Wake, we have won 14 national championships. Hooks was the AD for 28 years and won 6 national championships (all in golf). Gibson was the AD for 10 years and won one national championship (baseball), and Weaver was the AD for 17 years and won 2 national championships (both in golf). Wellman also presided over half of our ACC championships in basketball and football.

As I have written on here before, even more important than all of that, he was instrumental in keeping the ACC together (and hence, Wake in a P5 conference) during realignment in 2013. In my opinion, that was his greatest contribution to Wake athletics.

There is also no doubt he screwed up big time by hiring [name redacted].
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Just for general information, other than 3 in field hockey and 1 in men's soccer, what were the 10 other NC's in?
 
Rafi said:
Wellman is, without a doubt, the most successful athletic director in Wake Forest history. In his 26 years at Wake, we have won 14 national championships. Hooks was the AD for 28 years and won 6 national championships (all in golf). Gibson was the AD for 10 years and won one national championship (baseball), and Weaver was the AD for 17 years and won 2 national championships (both in golf). Wellman also presided over half of our ACC championships in basketball and football.

As I have written on here before, even more important than all of that, he was instrumental in keeping the ACC together (and hence, Wake in a P5 conference) during realignment in 2013. In my opinion, that was his greatest contribution to Wake athletics.

There is also no doubt he screwed up big time by hiring [name redacted].
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Can you list the 14 nattys? I'm trying to count them and am coming up short of 14. I know probably half of them were in field hockey.
 
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